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    #61
    Updated the Bio Launcher to give it Bio Web functionality. Firing a primary grenade into a secondary blob will make it explode into a Bio Web.
    Credit for the idea goes to threadlock from his old prototype here https://forums.unrealtournament.com/...2-BioRifle-Web




    I also finally made the companion weapon that is meant to be used in conjunction with this Bio Launcher.
    New thread here Sticky Rocket Launcher

    Comment


      #62
      Nice work man!

      Personally a huge fan of this approach and started prototyping something very similar internally over the past couple days. Bio nades have been on my wish list for a long time, so I'm happy to see there is some overlap going on. I don't want to hijack your thread though, if you are curious you can find it on GIT.

      Comment


        #63
        Yea that's exactly how I wish the bioweb would work like because:

        - The current mechanic is too slow for how fast paced UT is
        - Requiring 2 different weapons is bad in several ways: the placement importance mappers have to think about, the slow weapon switch doesn't work well in such a fast paced game, you deplete link gun ammo that will be needed for others tasks such as healing vehicles or linking up teammates (Link already has its fair share of good uses)
        - The bio web mechanic you propose is more fun and further expands its tactical weapon nature
        - Imagine the possibilities it opens up for defenders in CTF, it opens doors to a whole new creativity
        - As it is currently, it takes such a long time to set up a proper net, only to see it disappearing in the next second enemy fires a rocket into it *sad face emoticon*

        I could go on but I think that's good enough reasons.

        As far as primary fire goes, the bouncing goo blob is one good option. If we want to keep the rather amusing look of a living goo walking around, I'd say another option would be to add that mechanic to primary fire and exclude it from charged up goos (such huge damage dealing projectile moving around isn't good). The primary fire deals such a low dmg, it's not such a big deal if the goo starts wandering about. I'd propose in that case to let it activate as soon as it lands the surface but only within a reasonable small range it starts chasing another player. This can create a kind of "minigame" where the guy which gets the small bio gobs chasing him would have to start shooting down the incoming wave of small bio goo if he wants to chase down the player or just intelligently dodge them on his way up to the player. This mechanic I'd say slightly better would bring out the defensive nature of Bio Gun than bouncing goo but both are good options for different reasons. The bouncing nature is already present in rocket grenades though meanwhile chasing mechanic is brand new for the series which is also worth thinkering about. To avoid clogging up server activity it could always be brought down to only ONCE check at the time landed if player is within the radius the chasing event activates with or not and then just simply stay put if no1 was close enough at the time fired.

        I'd love to be able to experiment with bio gun myself but sadly I'm no coder so can't get my thoughts into actual prototypes. ^^
        Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 12-17-2015, 06:18 PM.

        Comment


          #64
          Originally posted by Clawfist View Post
          Nice work man!

          Personally a huge fan of this approach and started prototyping something very similar internally over the past couple days. Bio nades have been on my wish list for a long time, so I'm happy to see there is some overlap going on. I don't want to hijack your thread though, if you are curious you can find it on GIT.
          If you want to say or discuss anything about it I have no problem with it happening here.
          I am curious, but compiling a git build probably takes about as long on my potato PC as it will take until the next build is released so I will just wait for that.

          Originally posted by RPGWiZ4RD View Post
          If we want to keep the rather amusing look of a living goo walking around, I'd say another option would be to add that mechanic to primary fire and exclude it from charged up goos (such huge damage dealing projectile moving around isn't good).
          The chasing behavior is just a way to make the Bio more viable I think. A lot of players don't seem to care for it that much as it feels like it's removing skill as it's just damage that is automatically being done for you instead of by you.

          Something I have thought about is how the web should act if its blob nodes get destroyed. There is some room there for (some of) the nodes to start chasing players and not make it too easy/risk-free to destroy parts of a web.

          I'd love to be able to experiment with bio gun myself but sadly I'm no coder so can't get my thoughts into actual prototypes. ^^
          All my stuff has been done with blueprints only, which isn't coding as such though it does help to know some. At the moment using C++ to make something for this game has quite a lot of barriers to it so I don't even bother.

          Comment


            #65
            Originally posted by Stolid View Post
            The chasing behavior is just a way to make the Bio more viable I think. A lot of players don't seem to care for it that much as it feels like it's removing skill as it's just damage that is automatically being done for you instead of by you.

            Something I have thought about is how the web should act if its blob nodes get destroyed. There is some room there for (some of) the nodes to start chasing players and not make it too easy/risk-free to destroy parts of a web.


            All my stuff has been done with blueprints only, which isn't coding as such though it does help to know some. At the moment using C++ to make something for this game has quite a lot of barriers to it so I don't even bother.
            Yea the moving goo is definitely added as a way to make it more viable and I'm not suprised that there's plenty of people disliking it since it's a "low skill" mechanic. However I can see plenty of reasonable things why it's not such a dumb mechanic:

            - The look of bio moving around is creepy in a good way. The first time I saw it was like dafuq, THE GOO IS ALIIIIIIVE :O It still puts a smile on me, this is something which I think has more appeal among newer players to UT franchise.
            - While I still think from a balanced point of view the fully charged up goo walking around is too unbalanced or rather too much annoying especially in DM as it may creep up your back without you being aware of it which is bad since there's no chance for you to react to such circumstances. But if only adding it to primary fire which could stay in the 20~23 dmg or so zone requiring 5 hits (possibly 4) to kill one player making it as exceptionally slow way to kill players and there will be plenty of time to react before ending up killed but at the same time make it the safest way to try score a frag since you could even stay in another room firing into another busy room and you won't necessarily even be engaged in combat. Sure, while the least exciting/skillful way to score a frag, it's more of a great tactical decision again in some cases and bio is both defensive & tactical so it kinda fits to be that slow but tactical mechanic by making the primary fire that bit more useful compared to now when it's so weak it's not much point to exist
            - I really like the idea of "minigame" of having this stream of bio goo approaching you. I keep imaging for example CTF-Dam if you keep spamming it from the sniper spawn into the rocket launcher spawn corridor and be met by this stream of bio goo approaching you when you have to like dodge those goos like bullets or destroy them to advance up to the player. I would find that kind of situation pleasing from a gameplay point of view especially for the targeted player
            - The whole mechanic is unlike any other weapon's and therefore has its own place of use
            - Especially in CTF it could be used to support the flag carrier as a distraction for the opponent when flag is being taken you start firing it into the backs of people from a safe position at those waiting for flag carrier to pass by and then they kinda might have to engage you instead or at least it becomes more trickier to focus on the flag carrier.

            The bouncing goo again has benefits that it makes it more useful by allowing you to reach guys not directly in your line of sight while being more skillful since it still requires aiming is a bit more offensive in its approach (which again is not necessarily a bad thing) but feels much the same as Grenades does again. Only the speed, distance etc is quite different in your prototype but I still think the grenades will get some tweaks as they are a bit oddly configured right now in any case so there's a chance those two would start overlapping each other in use case scenarios.

            So that bio grenade was done with blueprints only huh? Well unfortunately I even have trouble fully understanding blueprints to know what exactly I need to pick where etc, (like for example how to get the blueprint checking if there's a player within a certain radius from where the bio goo lands) I'm not used to work within editors from any previous games either so the whole logical thinking that coders have isn't quite fully there for me.
            Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 12-17-2015, 06:08 PM.

            Comment


              #66
              Originally posted by RPGWiZ4RD View Post
              The bouncing goo again has benefits that it makes it more useful by allowing you to reach guys not directly in your line of sight while being more skillful since it still requires aiming is a bit more offensive in its approach (which again is not necessarily a bad thing) but feels much the same as Grenades does again. Only the speed, distance etc is quite different in your prototype but I still think the grenades will get some tweaks as they are a bit oddly configured right now in any case so there's a chance those two would start overlapping each other in use case scenarios.
              They definitely overlap already, the bio grenade is deliberately nearly identical to the RL's grenade. I made the Sticky Rocket Launcher to work together with this Bio Launcher and as such it doesn't have grenades anymore.

              Comment


                #67
                Honestly, I think having the Primary Bio behaving like a GL (similar to the one in Quake or Warsow) is a great idea. I wish this would become the default behavior in the game rather than being a mutator.

                Also creating the web without a link gun is superb. It may not be *immersive* (if you can even say that) but I think the bio web is a great addition to the game but too weak to justify the switch over to the link gun. Removing the need for the link gun is a much better way to fix this than buffing the web in my honest opinion.

                Changing connection effect between the goo particles from the link beam to a gooey string would improve *immersion*.

                Comment


                  #68
                  In case you haven't seen the latest stream, Epic's Clawfist has shown his version of a Bio Launcher on there. It also has a grenade as primary fire and can also make a web without a linkgun. It even makes it without using the grenade which might make it too strong, but we will see next build.

                  Here's the stream link http://www.twitch.tv/unrealtournament/v/33934811

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by Stolid View Post
                    In case you haven't seen the latest stream, Epic's Clawfist has shown his version of a Bio Launcher on there. It also has a grenade as primary fire and can also make a web without a linkgun. It even makes it without using the grenade which might make it too strong, but we will see next build.

                    Here's the stream link http://www.twitch.tv/unrealtournament/v/33934811
                    Thanks for the link, havn't seen it yet. I usually watch it on Youtube when it pops up.

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Ok, tested out the prototype included in the latest build. This is really fun to use and way better then the old bio rifle!

                      Great idea!

                      The bounce and arch feels really good and its really satisfying when you get the nade to bounce just right. Hope they go with this idea as a permanent replacement.

                      Also for anyone that spent way to long trying to figure out how to try it: Just add the weapon replacement mutator and replace the bio rifle with bio launcher. :P

                      Comment


                        #71
                        need to remove standard bio rifle and put the bio default launcher.

                        Comment


                          #72
                          No 2 different weapons it must be Launcher and Rifle

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Personally I think the web should be activated by hitting a charged blob that you fired with a primary grenade. It'd make the weapon require slightly more planning and would get rid of the dumb situations where you miss by 600 units but the web spawns on them and instakills them :/
                            :|

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Originally posted by Flikswich View Post
                              Personally I think the web should be activated by hitting a charged blob that you fired with a primary grenade. It'd make the weapon require slightly more planning and would get rid of the dumb situations where you miss by 600 units but the web spawns on them and instakills them :/
                              THIS exactly, I made a perfect clip showing why this is so ridiculous: https://www.twitch.tv/radicllarry/v/60484007

                              It's just too random and covers way too much area for the damage that it does.

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