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    [PROTOTYPE] Enforcer WIP

    At this point a number of people have expressed dissatisfaction with the seemingly boring and vanilla nature of the Enforcer. Based on various and threads (1, 2, 3) it seems like a lot of people are dissatisfied with the way the Enforcer's firemodes are set up.

    I happen to agree with this stance, and in the interest of not threadjacking the other Enforcer thread I wanted to iterate on Enforcer design and see if there are any elements we can add to the Enforcer that will make it a more interesting weapon to use.


    LAST UPDATE MARCH 20 2015

    Iteration 1A



    This iteration demonstrates a couple of concepts that might be useful ideas to incorporate into the Enforcer.

    Primary Fire: Armor-piercing high caliber rounds. These bullets deliver a hefty 20 damage per shot, with 50% of that damage piercing armor to remain relevant even for the most down-and-out player.
    Alternate Fire: This weapon can hold up to 4 high-explosive mini-grenades. Holding the trigger charges the grenade launching mechanism to launch the grenades further distance
    HUD Enhancements : This weapon indicates a spread indicator for bullet-fire. In addition, it also has a visual indicator for the number of current grenades (white) out of total grenades (red), and a charging bar indicating the state of the current grenade launcher charge.


    Iteration 1:



    This iteration utilizes peripheral firemodes to allow the Enforcer to utilize 3 firemodes.

    Primary Fire: Hitscan bullets, standard rate of fire
    Primary Fire + Alternate Fire: Hitscan bullets, rapid rate of fire *
    Alternate Fire: Grenades **

    Thoughts:
    I feel the alternate firemode for the Enforcer should be a projectile, with higher damage output than the Enforcer bullet, but limited capacity or long refire time. I'm favorably inclined towards the grenade iteration for two reasons. (1) This brings one of the better elements of the UT2k4 starting gun to the new UT. I like this as a nod towards UT2k4. (2) The Enforcer, to me, should harken back to current technology. I don't like the idea of the Enforcer being some kind of generic energy gun, and a pistol with a mini-grenade launcher on it sounds just about right for UT's brand of over-the-top weaponry.


    * Note: Random firing spread would increase during the "gangsta" firemode. See iteration 3 for demonstration.
    ** (TODO: Grenade Charging functionality, ammo limitation)


    Iteration 2:



    This iteration utilizes peripheral firemodes to allow the Enforcer to utilize 3 firemodes.
    Added spread indicator on Enforcer bullet firemodes for improved feedback.*

    Primary Fire: Hitscan bullets, standard rate of fire
    Primary Fire + Alternate Fire: Hitscan bullets, rapid rate of fire*
    Alternate Fire: Dispersion Energy Projectile (1x projectile at 50-75 damage, high knockback) ****

    Thoughts:
    I feel the alternate firemode for the Enforcer should be a projectile, with higher damage output than the Enforcer bullet, but limited capacity or long refire time. This iteration is a nod towards Gooba's Enforcer design. Rather than utilizing a grenade projectile, I'm utilizing a bluish energy projectile (matching with the blue energy emitted from the Enforcer model in concept art). Perhaps this is some kind of propellant that is used for firing bullets, or can be charged up and released in a single slower moving explosive blast. This iteration is also a bit of a nod back towards Unreal 1's Dispersion Pistol, and functionality-wise it is less "spammy" than the bouncing grenades that were featured on the UT2k4 Assault Rifle.


    * Note: Random firing spread would increase during the "gangsta" firemode. See iteration 3 for demonstration.
    **** (TODO: Charge-up functionality on Energy projectile)


    Iteration 3:



    This iteration utilizes peripheral firemodes to allow the Enforcer to utilize 3 firemodes.
    Added spread indicator on Enforcer bullet firemodes for improved feedback.

    Primary Fire: Hitscan bullets, standard rate of fire
    Primary Fire + Alternate Fire: Hitscan bullets, rapid rate of fire
    Alternate Fire: Dispersion Energy Projectile Burst. 4x projectiles at (~20 damage each)

    Thoughts:
    This is an iteration on the idea of the Enforcer firing some energized bullets as projectiles (v2). This version adds a bit of uniqueness to the alternate fire by making the projectiles shoot outward initially and then curve back inward to target the shot's initial location. It's a different effect than we have on any other projectile weapon in UT, but I'm not entirely convinced it makes sense or is right for the Enforcer. Conveying how the Enforcer fires in this way would be important. The initial spread makes the projectiles function somewhat like a diluted flak cannon primary up close, but at longer ranges the arc gives the projectiles more of a rocket-type function.
    Last edited by Wail; 09-06-2015, 02:48 AM.
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    #2
    Good ideas although your proposed settings are probably a bit off from balancing point of view (but I guess it hasn't been in a huge focus yet) but they DEFINITELY address the "boring"-part of the current Enforcer though. The grenade seems perhaps the best idea (although the thing that speaks against that is the 2ndary fire of Rocket Launcher so not sure if it's the right path either), the gangsta spam looked totally overpowered (although much fun I'll admit ). The dynamic spread version might also work especially with two enforcers in mind. Dispersion Energy Projectile, hmm... well max 50 damage for sure if it has a high knockback. This knockback could be fun on certain especially low gravity space maps but yea difficult to say if the weapon gets TOO useful or not, it's important for it to not become any more powerful than the other weapons or take away their intended usage scenarios from other weapons so to speak with a perhaps even more useful mechanic.

    Let's see what Iteration 3 brings.
    Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 10-25-2014, 04:58 PM.

    Comment


      #3
      I'm not a huge fan of mixing both mouse buttons at the same time, it's rare any new players will really use it, or feel comfortable. Plus, it's not easy to time your shots when you are engaging so muscle groups in your fingers.

      Comment


        #4
        Updated first post with iteration 3. Please let me know what you think on this concept.


        Originally posted by KazeoHin-TechAE View Post
        I'm not a huge fan of mixing both mouse buttons at the same time, it's rare any new players will really use it, or feel comfortable. Plus, it's not easy to time your shots when you are engaging so muscle groups in your fingers.
        I personally don't have a problem with it and I consider my finger dexterity rather low. That being said, I think you would be able to bind this to a single button (or just not use it).

        Gangsta firemode has limited utility but it has a lot of character. I like preserving it as a peripheral firemode because it preserves that badass character, and in the marginal situations where you just want a panic button spam it exists, but you won't lose out on too much if you don't.
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        Comment


          #5
          I'm more confused by having energy projectiles in a gun that shoots bullets. The logic behind it doesn't seem that sound. If you were to do a firemode like that it would make more sense for it to be on the linkgun.

          TBH I'm not sure there is really any good way to make the Enforcer more interesting that actually suits it. Better just to redesign it as a whole new weapon, but of course by now, the model is approved so that ain't gonna happen either.

          If you want to have new projectiles for it then the only way to do that convincingly, imo, would be to allow for different types of bullet pickups to be used with the Enforcer. Like one that explodes, and so on.

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          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by HenrikRyosa View Post
            I'm more confused by having energy projectiles in a gun that shoots bullets. The logic behind it doesn't seem that sound. If you were to do a firemode like that it would make more sense for it to be on the linkgun.

            TBH I'm not sure there is really any good way to make the Enforcer more interesting that actually suits it. Better just to redesign it as a whole new weapon, but of course by now, the model is approved so that ain't gonna happen either.

            If you want to have new projectiles for it then the only way to do that convincingly, imo, would be to allow for different types of bullet pickups to be used with the Enforcer. Like one that explodes, and so on.

            I agree there's a communication challenge. The entire reason I'm iterating on the energy projectile route is because the design that was chosen looks like it might have some kind of energy projectile.





            That being said, I personally favor some kind of mini-grenade or mini-rocket because, to me, the Enforcer is meant to be an older-styled, reliable firearm. But that doesn't mean we can't have different firemodes with utility that's different from the standard hitscan bullet approach.



            (Relevant Time: 1m 22s+)
            For example, in the most recent Judge Dredd film, Dredd, the Lawgiver pistol fires in several different modes. The pistol in that movie features standard semi-automatic fire, rapid-fire, high explosive mini-rockets, incendiary rounds, armor-piercing rounds...



            As developers Epic has control over determining what the functionality of the Enforcer is. So yes, that needs to be communicated effectively through art design, and our ideas need to align with the overall vision for the Enforcer, but these are quite solvable challenges. I don't think we should constrain our vision for how the gameplay can be improved based on these concerns.
            Last edited by Wail; 10-26-2014, 05:44 PM.
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            Comment


              #7
              Another Enforcer thread, another c/p of my message (in quotes).. (:

              Originally posted by Tycerax View Post
              How about Enforcer v2 (which I totally made up now)? Combining Enforcer and Assault Rifle shouldn't be too hard I guess.

              As the original Enforcer and Assault Rifle, normal fire shoots bullets with an interval of 0.5 second per bullet. It can be worn Akimbo and the interval is halved to 0.25 second per bullet. (hitscan - left click)
              Alternate fire consumes 5 bullets at once and shoots an explosive "bullet mass" as a direct trajectory. Firing interval is 1 or 1.25 second. When Akimbo, alternate fire can be used on a single Enforcer and the other one can be used normally. (projectile - while holding left click, pressing right click)
              2. Alternate fire increases firing rate but decreases accuracy. Rate increases to 0.4 (or 0.35 second). (very fast projectile - while holding left click, pressing and holding right click)

              Enforcer v2 uses only bullets.
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              Comment


                #8
                What if:

                -The cartridge were not a single cartridge but two, side by side, allowing for two different ammo types to be loaded simultaneously.
                -When the Enforcer detects a special type of cartridge, it adjusts the firemode accordingly, for example: A grenade type bullet is loaded in, and detecting this, the Enforcer switches to a lower velocity (note - ejection velocity, not fire rate) mode.
                -The glowy bit is part of the detection mechanism?

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                Comment


                  #9
                  The music...amazing...can we have this be the music for the next UT?
                  PayBack

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Why are everyone so concerned whether it's realistic to have such firing possibilities in the gun if looking at the design (oh wait... "designers" )? I think gameplay should always be #1 priority if we want to have a game that is fun to play. Definitely need to address the boringness of enforcer somehow due to lackluster firing mechanics but how is a good question. Keep them suggestions coming!

                    I personally couldn't care less about the design aspect, just want a balanced but fun alternative firing mode to it. I'd rather play with weapons which look like a stick o' random pixels with great gameplay firing mechanics than a game with great weapon models and realistic firing but boring gameplay / weapon mechanics. In an ideal world, both aspects would be nice to have!

                    What makes for a great starter weapon IMO:

                    - Useable in all scenarios (both close-range and long-range)
                    - Not worthless
                    - Balanced, not more powerful than other weapons, I'd say more like it would be great to have it 75~85% as good statistically as the other pickup weapons so it would still be worth going for those other weapons.
                    - Straightforward to use
                    Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 10-26-2014, 08:26 PM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by HenrikRyosa View Post
                      What if:

                      -The cartridge were not a single cartridge but two, side by side, allowing for two different ammo types to be loaded simultaneously.
                      -When the Enforcer detects a special type of cartridge, it adjusts the firemode accordingly, for example: A grenade type bullet is loaded in, and detecting this, the Enforcer switches to a lower velocity (note - ejection velocity, not fire rate) mode.
                      -The glowy bit is part of the detection mechanism?
                      Just trying to pin down exactly what you're saying here: If grenade ammo is loaded, the player can't use the bullet firing mechanism?

                      Personally I think it's enough explanation to say that there are a few mini-explosive rounds somewhere in the Enforcer (limit needs to be determined by gameplay. Personally I feel 2-3 is fine), have some different firing animation and a mechanism for loading the next one. Like one per virtual "magazine" (aka ammo pickup). When we shoot the explosive round we can see some mechanism drop out that part of the mag and the player replaces it, if possessing sufficient ammo.

                      If we go with a charging mechanism like the UT2k4 Assault Rifle (where charge corresponds to projectile velocity) then we could have some kind of pre-fire animation that occurs showing the weapon reconfiguring in some way too. Perhaps raising a rangefinder, or the player's hands performing some task.


                      Originally posted by Tycerax
                      How about Enforcer v2 (which I totally made up now)? Combining Enforcer and Assault Rifle shouldn't be too hard I guess.

                      As the original Enforcer and Assault Rifle, normal fire shoots bullets with an interval of 0.5 second per bullet. It can be worn Akimbo and the interval is halved to 0.25 second per bullet. (hitscan - left click)
                      Alternate fire consumes 5 bullets at once and shoots an explosive "bullet mass" as a direct trajectory. Firing interval is 1 or 1.25 second. When Akimbo, alternate fire can be used on a single Enforcer and the other one can be used normally. (projectile - while holding left click, pressing right click)
                      2. Alternate fire increases firing rate but decreases accuracy. Rate increases to 0.4 (or 0.35 second). (very fast projectile - while holding left click, pressing and holding right click)

                      Enforcer v2 uses only bullets.
                      How does this differ in actual functionality from the single shot energy projectile shown in iteration 2?



                      Originally posted by -jay- View Post
                      The music...amazing...can we have this be the music for the next UT?
                      I hope so. The UT4 soundtrack needs some well-tempered claviers.



                      Originally posted by RPGWiZ4RD View Post
                      Why are everyone so concerned whether it's realistic to have such firing possibilities in the gun if looking at the design (oh wait... "designers" )? I think gameplay should always be #1 priority if we want to have a game that is fun to play. Definitely need to address the boringness of enforcer somehow due to lackluster firing mechanics but how is a good question. Keep them suggestions coming!

                      I personally couldn't care less about the design aspect, just want a balanced but fun alternative firing mode to it. I'd rather play with weapons which look like a stick o' random pixels with great gameplay firing mechanics than a game with great weapon models and realistic firing but boring gameplay / weapon mechanics. In an ideal world, both aspects would be nice to have!

                      What makes for a great starter weapon IMO:

                      - Useable in all scenarios (both close-range and long-range)
                      - Not worthless
                      - Balanced, not more powerful than other weapons, I'd say more like it would be great to have it 75~85% as good statistically as the other pickup weapons so it would still be worth going for those other weapons.
                      - Straightforward to use
                      Good points. I'm with you, especially on the point of having utility in all scenarios. The Enforcer is what players are going to see as soon as they spawn, and it needs to be a little bit more well-rounded than any other gun just because players are always going to have that to rely on to get them out of danger on spawning.
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                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Wail View Post
                        Originally posted by Tycerax View Post
                        How about Enforcer v2 (which I totally made up now)? Combining Enforcer and Assault Rifle shouldn't be too hard I guess.

                        As the original Enforcer and Assault Rifle, normal fire shoots bullets with an interval of 0.5 second per bullet. It can be worn Akimbo and the interval is halved to 0.25 second per bullet. (hitscan - left click)
                        Alternate fire consumes 5 bullets at once and shoots an explosive "bullet mass" as a direct trajectory. Firing interval is 1 or 1.25 second. When Akimbo, alternate fire can be used on a single Enforcer and the other one can be used normally. (projectile - while holding left click, pressing right click)
                        2. Alternate fire increases firing rate but decreases accuracy. Rate increases to 0.4 (or 0.35 second). (very fast projectile - while holding left click, pressing and holding right click)

                        Enforcer v2 uses only bullets.
                        How does this differ in actual functionality from the single shot energy projectile shown in iteration 2?
                        Not much but I kinda envisioned it a bit like shotgun-fire. "Dispersion Energy Projectile" reminds me of shock rifle. (:
                        Tiny Details That Should NOT Be Forgotten & Dynamic Arenas & UT4 Storyline - Story Design & Gametype Designs: Volleyball - 3-Way CTF & Smartphone/Tablet Integration

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Here is how I view the enforcer: when you spawn, you have a useful weapon to help you find another weapon. It keeps you alive, it doesn't help you rack up kills. It should, however be a power weapon when you pick up a second one.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by KazeoHin-TechAE View Post
                            Here is how I view the enforcer: when you spawn, you have a useful weapon to help you find another weapon. It keeps you alive, it doesn't help you rack up kills. It should, however be a power weapon when you pick up a second one.
                            That sounds about right. The *** Rifle in 2004 wasn't good for anything unless you had two of the things or could actually land those slow-moving pipe bombs.
                            Flak M0nk3y 4 Life

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I like 1st iteration the most. The idea of the grenade is great as it gives you a situational reason to switch weapons back to the enforcer to say drop a grenade into an entrance way (predicting a player will be coming that way soon) or maybe hinder players chasing you in a mod like ctf or assault etc.
                              Whereas in previous games once you grab any other weapon you'd rarely consider using the enforcer again unless you ran out of ammo for all other weapons.

                              Another reason I like the grenade is that it offers the player an extra tool for evading being spawn killed and this would be dependent on skill rather than using say an invincibility shield i.e. 2ndary function from ut2k4.

                              Thirdly the grenade function could be used as a sort of kamikaze in certain situations e.g. just spawned and have seemingly no way to evade a fully armoured opponent closing in, it might just swing the match in your favour if you take him with you or even remove his armour/shield belt.

                              I really like this idea because it gives the player more options which imo is usually a good thing for gameplay.

                              I'd also say that I always preferred the enforcer being very accurate rather than having a wide spread, you're already using a weaker weapon than others in the game and I don't see much sense in not reward people who can aim more accurately.
                              Many a time if I didn't have an sniper/shock rifle to hand and my opponent was on low health and escaping medium to long range I could switch to my enforcer to finish them off, another reason to use the weak starter weapon that makes it feel less irrelevant.

                              Anyway that's my 2 cents, keep up the good work

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