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Epic - Please Remove Spawn Protection from Duel

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  • #16
    It should be removed especially now, when we have possibility to choose spawn place. If you have bad spawn its only your fault! Protection is extremely unfair to the attacker. He is wasting his ammo and time and can do nothing, when in the same time his opponent can kill him.
    Remove it plz.
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    • #17
      Im an experienced duelist across a lot of arena fps. Spawn protection simply does not belong in duel. A mid skill player killed me after he picked up flak cannon. I could not kill him because of spawn protection.

      The whole competitive community pretty much agrees that it doesn't belong.
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      • #18
        I think Epic is not aiming at enabling competitive settings on there hubs yet, its the same with TDM where weaponstay is on and friendly fire off.
        This will probably come in the future tho.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by raLa View Post
          I think Epic is not aiming at enabling competitive settings on there hubs yet, its the same with TDM where weaponstay is on and friendly fire off.
          This will probably come in the future tho.
          That's fine if it's not the default setting, but I'd like to see it as a mutator like the "weapon stay off" mutator that you can add under custom games (don't remember the exact name of the mutator.

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          • #20
            Shamelessly promoting a prototype for a different spawn protection system


            I think some of the concerns about a protected player are solved with that system. But at the same time it adds/keeps the ability to fight back by ghost-killing the opponent after spawn (similar to tele-fragging with a translocator; still hard to pull off). It is risky to try as once you fail, you're unprotected near a player with a better fire power than you. Additionally (as it was desinged before Duel got the spawn selection feature) the spawnkilling is minimized as the spawn effect is not played once the player enters as ghost but as a player. This will result into the actual spawn location differ from the map spawn locations as players strategically use different routes in different game situations based on pickups or enemy positions. The ghost is spawned silently but has a very low ambient sound playing (in order to warn the player for a ghost-killing attempt) this makes it easy to get across the whole map and not being noticed at all. It would allow to safely get your favority weapon (in case it's available), escape enimies sight/fire and/or strategically just wait at your spawn.

            Every action from a player whether is pickup up a weapon, shooting the current weapon or switching the inventory weapon results into ending the protection which balances it well for protected and non-protected players. Once a spawned player desires to shoot at an enemy, the protection is off and the enemy is also able to fight back (without wasting ammo etc.).

            I played about 2 matches with that mutator (in UT3), and it pretty much left unnoticable if you play actively as a killed player. At the same, it can add some depth to duel with the ghost-killing feature. Within these 2 matches I got killed by that ghost-killing feature but it allowed the other player to re-stack. As we were both recently spawned players, we both needed to pick up decent weapons and/or additional pickups to gain map control again. The ghost-kill was actually fair as I didn't take care of surrounding spawn points in order to avoid being ghost-killed.

            This mutator is not removing any spawnkilling. But it adds the ability for a spawned player to avoid being spawn-killed.

            Note:
            I actually tried to create the mutator for UT4 but sadly UT4's collision system is different. I wasn't able to allow no-collision on players. Once the collision was set, the players fell through the map. The collision component is the root component of the player which is used to calculate the movement. I'm sure it hasn't changed much; not sure if there would be a workaround for that. I would actually like to have a playble prototype for UT4. From the concept, it's worth to try it at least.

            PS: Don't want to hijack this thread. The discussion about this idea/concept/mutator can be held in the specific thread.
            ] Map Scaler Tool | Betrayal for UT4 | No Spawn Protection | No Pickup Timer | BioLauncher (revived) | ForcePickupSpawn | Map cosmetics::P | Safe Spawn::P | Why numbers for Health/Armor suck!::ANALYSIS/CONCEPT
            ] UT3 Addons: NoMoreDemoGuy | PickupRespawnTweak | Mutate Spec | MutePawnSounds | NoPlayerBeacon | Epic FTW | Epic FOCK | TripodSound (... and many more)

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            • #21
              spawn protection should be removed, it's killing the fun and the big thing is to have fun... don't fix what aint broken, epic is trying too many things that are killing the (fun of) the game.

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              • #22
                Spawn protection should be an option that can be set up by the server admin, no more no less.

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                • #23
                  I agree! Please remove the spawn protection, or lower it a lot. It is so frustrating to not get awarded for your map knowledge. It is a skill to learn it so well so you can spawn kill someone.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by tonyrayo View Post
                    please! add a mutator for duels! to remove the following:

                    -respawn protection
                    -udamage
                    -armors,belt and other sounds (reducing the sound only if u are close to the armor u can hear and not across the map)
                    -remove timer for weapons and belt/armors/etc

                    We can have something called "PROMOD DUEL" i remember my cod4 days where there was a promod thing

                    these mod can also work for pro tdm
                    and bright skins and hitsounds, and we can call it "UTComp" for Competitive Unreal Tournament.

                    Originally posted by joellll View Post
                    While this might sound a bit nuts dm4 from quakeworld is heavily based on spawnkilling and is decently fun.
                    Fun for who?

                    Originally posted by RattleSN4K3 View Post
                    The ghost is spawned silently but has a very low ambient sound playing (in order to warn the player for a ghost-killing attempt)
                    Rattlesn4k3, this is the factor that I worry about... any time you spawn a player with a low ambient sound, there are going to be duelers who play with .ini files tweaked to have the best audio in their $300 headphones. *cough* legionz *cough* This will allow them to zero in on your location instantly. If you want to make a stealth spawn system, the audio needs to be stealth too. The protected player should have no footstep sounds, while this stealth protection is enabled. I would balance this by making all sounds the protected player hears while under protection muffled. (similar to how cloaking works in several other games when you cloak, it sounds like you're under water.)

                    I do however like the idea of stealth spawn protection, as it would also allow for the stealth player to take damage, which may just satisfy both the players who want spawn protection off, and the players who believe there should be some additional form of protection for the respawning player.
                    Last edited by Dr.ToxicVenom; 08-19-2015, 02:25 PM. Reason: merging responses
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                    • #25
                      Right now duel needs some tweaks. I do believe these changes need to be made.

                      -Keep the choose a spawn at the beginning of the match, but lose it between spawns.I know epic has been experimenting with this but most of the community prefers classic spawns.

                      -Remove u damage from duels. If players want to play with it ON, use a mutator.

                      -As the thread states, remove spawn protection. It doesn't really belong in duel. In 1v1 no player should be able to have a 3 second protection against them when they spawn beside the enemy after dying, pick up the Rockets and get a cheap kill. Spawn killing is a work of art, a way highly offensive players can reward themselves.

                      -Removing the timer on items. Obviously it doesn't belong in competitive play, but epic probably won't remove it, so it's something we have to deal with.
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Dr.ToxicVenom View Post
                        and bright skins and hitsounds, and we can call it "UTComp" for Competitive Unreal Tournament.
                        + disable own footsteps option
                        http://forum.unreal.pl/image.php?u=2...ine=1223384883
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                        • #27
                          How 'bout instead of a mutator, we let spawn protection be a game setting along with goal score, time limit, and force respawn? Like put a check box for it. This would solve the issue of choice. And that's more sensible because it's in the same family of alterations as game settings: it changes the way a match progresses rather than the gameplay (like instagib and low gravity).

                          As for whether it should be on or off in duel by default, I think it should be off. It only helps on fast maps, maps with bad spawn positions, and with bad respawn systems. Well... fast maps are designed to play like that and they're not the majority. Bad spawns can be fixed in the editor. The respawn system can still be improved since we're not even out of pre-alpha.

                          In DM and TDM, I think a 1-2 second spawn protection should be on by default because there's more chaotic spam, especially if friendly fire is on. But for duel: off.

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                          • #28
                            Why respawn protection is bad and unfair? Just watch the video



                            Szarkan should get a frag, but he don't. He wasted his ammo and get some enforcer damage. In the same time his opponent steal him a100 and shieldbelt. After all Szarkan almost lost his life. Why nubaka should be dead? because he choose this spawn itself. The spawn was safe, he could wait there, but he decided to risk and take the armor.
                            Super-unfair.
                            Last edited by rAge.; 08-26-2015, 05:40 PM.
                            http://forum.unreal.pl/image.php?u=2...ine=1223384883
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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by rAge. View Post
                              Why respawn protection is bad and unfair? Just watch the video



                              Szarkan should get a frag, but he don't. He wasted his ammo and get some enforcer damage. In the same time his opponent steal him a100 and shieldbelt. After all Szarkan almost lost his life.
                              Super-unfair.
                              The theft of the 100 armor is exactly the sort of situation that highlights one of the problems with spawn protection in duel. The player dies and then is rewarded with temporary immortality from a well-placed combo, allowing him to steal a crucial powerup. Granted, Szarkan still should have gotten the shield belt - missing that was totally on him.

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                              • #30
                                He knew about the belt, you can see that he is going in the right direction just after the combo, he turned out when he realised that combo didn't killed his opponent. Probably he was confused because of that, and made a mistake (but it's still mistake caused by spawn protection).
                                http://forum.unreal.pl/image.php?u=2...ine=1223384883
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