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    BOT AI Level

    First up, I'm an average player, and not likely to be more than that. I've enjoyed playing through the offline challenges, and have completed some though to 3 stars. I have to say though, that in duel and instagib, the abilities of the bots is nothing short of ridiculous from what I've seen. I know that I have no chance at all of winning on hard, maybe players of greater ability would take issue, but for me the bots are no FUN. In the hard level instagib in Deck I've just played, as soon as a pixel of me shows round a corner I'm dead. Every time. Not fun. It feels like the BOTS are using their inside edge against me (they are part of the code after all!). Epic need to build in some fallacy into the bots, so they are not perfect. They miss, they do not always get all armour and health in amazing time.
    I really love the UT series, and UT4 has such potential. I know this is pre-Alpha, and my comments are made with that understanding...
    Martin

    #2
    The graphics in this game are maybe next gen. But the AI is Completely not. It seems that the AI be just as worthless as in UT99.

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      #3
      I'm hoping the AI is still under development, or at least yet to be refined. Obviously playing online against people is the ultimate experience, but sometimes it's nice to play alone.
      Martin

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        #4
        A good way to promote ai dev, is by providing feedback like OP, or many others in the challenges thread, i.e he'd like to see some variation, in when the bots actually grab power ups, instead of standing at spawn every time it pops. The thing about instagib against bots atm, is to stick to the ground. If you just spam left and right you can make them miss a couple of shots and make yours. As soon as you go airborne or if you spawn in their vicinity your toast, so some adjustment is needed.

        This...

        Originally posted by GUMBOOM View Post
        The graphics in this game are maybe next gen. But the AI is Completely not. It seems that the AI be just as worthless as in UT99.
        Helps absolutely no-one... Neither devs or the people that has a grief with the current state of the ai.
        Streaming @ http://www.twitch.tv/VertLIVE - UT4 + map creation and other games.

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          #5
          Actually the AI of UT99 was really great, if it could get to that level, I would be really pleased. UT3 had even poorer AI than current state of bots though, so gotta see that as a positive thing.

          But when it comes to bot movement, it's got a long way to go if wanting to approach UT99 style non-linear movement of bots that understand to constantly juke back n forth:

          Do notice this is only a "Skilled" both level and Godlike bots are even better but in this video it shows nicely how bots understand to using strafing and not just linearly around.

          Check especially how Raynor moves around at 5:30... I'd be jumping out of joy seeing current bots not just move linearly ahead in their intended direction.
          Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 11-08-2015, 01:36 PM.

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            #6
            I was always fairly impressed by the UT99 bot AI as well. They played quite competently without ever feeling aimbotty until you got to Godlike (with the exception of Loque at some times...). More to the point, they felt less robotic and predictable than all subsequent UT bots to me; the UT99 bots always went for pickups, but they weren't guaranteed to arrive at the precise second the powerup spawns, as an example.

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              #7
              Originally posted by aniviron View Post
              I was always fairly impressed by the UT99 bot AI as well. They played quite competently without ever feeling aimbotty until you got to Godlike (with the exception of Loque at some times...). More to the point, they felt less robotic and predictable than all subsequent UT bots to me; the UT99 bots always went for pickups, but they weren't guaranteed to arrive at the precise second the powerup spawns, as an example.
              Yea exactly, but yea for me, movement is the most important thing that separates bots from human players. As it is right now, they just run around in perfect straight lines on the maps. Even newb players don't usually run perfectly straight so it's not very helpful vs beginners either and then go online and barely will score a kill. While bots isn't important for me since I try to avoid them altogether, I feel it's an important topic to dwelve into from newcomer's point of view.

              UT99 bots definitely appeared as the most human-like bots so far and possibly the best bots I've yet encountered. The game may be old but it has some really good bot code, irrelevant of its time.

              When UT99 launched, I had only 56k modem / pay per min, meaning I really didn't play online at that time yet and played only offline in single player campaign but I had a really great time back then despite, thanks to the bot code. UT2kx was slightly worse and UT3 was MUCH worse. They ran around only in perfect straight lines and the aim was very robotic to say at least, always hitting 100% if you dodged (even around a corner). The aiming has improved since UT3 at the very least but it shares much of the same movement as in UT3 so far that they simply follow strictly the map bot patterns and do not try to juke other player's other than higher bot skills they start dodging projectiles but they don't yet understand to juke hitscan weapons for example no matter botskill.

              For me the number one thing to adress would be to get less same linear movement path useage, in the offline challenges it became quickly clear how the bots moved around the maps so you could start waiting for them to show up around a corner.
              Last edited by RPGWiZ4RD; 11-08-2015, 05:46 PM.

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                #8
                Originally posted by RPGWiZ4RD View Post
                I had a really great time back then despite, thanks to the bot code.
                While I had access to online, I loved combining mutators and 32 bot matches on massive maps. The AI was pretty **** good and I probably played 3000+ hours over a five year span. No other game has ever given me that kind of value or attracted my attention so completely that I invested so much of my time. The quality of the Bot AI cannot be emphasized enough. EPIC should be using it as their baseline. Whatever they're doing now is yucky.
                Mulsiphix's Guide To PUGing In UT4
                What is the difference between a Public server and a PUG? PUG stands for Pick Up Game. A more organized way of playing, teams are selected by Captains and voice communication is used to achieve better team coordination. These clan-style matches involve the same regulars, week after week. The community aspect, of PUGing with friends, really adds to the fun factor of a match. Want to know more or get your friends involved in PUGing? Check out my guide.

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                  #9
                  Just had another go at the offline duel in Chill on Medium. Unless Othello has had his armour severely depleted prior to me being (inevitably) killed, and I re-spawn close enough to him to get something nasty like a flak burst or rocket off before he's done his amazingly quick armour and health pickups, I just can't kill him. It's ridiculous how fast he becomes virtually invincible. I hit him with a three-rocket alt-fire at about 15 feet, and he still kills me with 150% health and the shield jacket so easily.

                  Come on Epic, make the more skilled bots fun!
                  Martin

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