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What would make people play arena FPS games again. Thoughts from non arenafps players

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    Originally posted by Dementiurge View Post
    Is Doom looking like an arena shooter, even though it probably won't have item timing?
    No.

    Originally posted by Dementiurge View Post
    Is Quake no longer an arena shooter because it has loadouts?
    In gamemodes where they have loadouts, yes, it's not an arena shooter. Since gamemodes without loadouts are the main attraction, it's still an AFPS overall.

    Originally posted by Dementiurge View Post
    Is Instagib mode an arena shooter?
    ..maybe? I'd lean towards no, though.

    Originally posted by Dementiurge View Post
    Is Call of Duty not an arena shooter just because it doesn't have enough projectile weapons?
    Not just because of that.

    Originally posted by Dementiurge View Post
    Is UT2004 not an arena shooter because it has vehicles and co-op Invasion?
    Main focus is 1v1/DM/TDM so it's still an arena FPS overall.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
      No.

      In gamemodes where they have loadouts, yes, it's not an arena shooter. Since gamemodes without loadouts are the main attraction, it's still an AFPS overall.

      ..maybe? I'd lean towards no, though.

      Not just because of that.

      Main focus is 1v1/DM/TDM so it's still an arena FPS overall.
      This is the silliest thing I have ever heard, Geometry Wars 3 has a loadout what type of game is it if its not an Arena Shooter aye? You know what you need for an arena shooter? Arenas and Shooters, its pretty simple. Id say its not rocket science but ohh the irony!
      Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

      Comment


        Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
        This is the silliest thing I have ever heard, Geometry Wars 3 has a loadout what type of game is it if its not an Arena Shooter aye? You know what you need for an arena shooter? Arenas and Shooters, its pretty simple. Id say its not rocket science but ohh the irony!
        Geometry Wars 3 is an arena shooter? Are you serious? Even Minecraft would be an arena shooter with your definition.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
          Geometry Wars 3 is an arena shooter? Are you serious? Even Minecraft would be an arena shooter with your definition.
          Cuz minecraft has arenas? Keep taking those drugs, it makes you such a thrill to converse with!
          Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

          Comment


            Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
            Cuz minecraft has arenas? Keep taking those drugs, it makes you such a thrill to converse with!
            You can build an arena in it, so yes. It has mods where you can get realistic guns too. Does that make it an arena shooter? No.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
              You can build an arena in it, so yes. It has mods where you can get realistic guns too. Does that make it an arena shooter? No.
              Youre talking about custom content! And yes that does actually turn the game into an arena shooter, thats the entire point of those mods. Are you really that dense?

              http://store.steampowered.com/tag/en...ab=NewReleases

              Good luck and have fun being triggered!
              Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

              Comment


                Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
                Youre talking about custom content! And yes that does actually turn the game into an arena shooter, thats the entire point of those mods. Are you really that dense?

                http://store.steampowered.com/tag/en...ab=NewReleases

                Good luck and have fun being triggered!
                Hah.. I guess we have different definitions of arena shooters. I'm pretty sure I've looked through that list some years ago and was like "WTF Steam? None of these games are appealing to me in any way".

                You're taking the definition of arena shooter literally, while for me it's something that describes a fast paced on-foot 3D game with guns focused on controlling item pickups scattered around an arena.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
                  Hah.. I guess we have different definitions of arena shooters. I'm pretty sure I've looked through that list some years ago and was like "WTF Steam? None of these games are appealing to me in any way".

                  You're taking the definition of arena shooter literally, while for me it's something that describes a fast paced on-foot 3D game with guns focused on controlling item pickups scattered around an arena.
                  Thast the thing I dont have a definition because I dont even consider Arena Shooter to be anything other than what it says, I dont think its some kind of genre or concept that exceeds the sum of its parts.

                  For me a game doesnt not A. Have to be 3D, B. Have guns... An arena shooter doesnt need to be either of those things, it doesnt even need pickups or any controlling aspect or even MP for that matter! Just because your narrow ideal of an Arena Shooter is more does not make it so, Im not saying youre wrong just that your perspective is clearly biased and what we needed in this thread was unbiased comments.

                  It clearly says thoughts from non-Arena FPS players, which doesnt include me either Im just sick of you old guard getting butthurt every time wants to use Arena Shooter correctly! No one even the non-arena fps players has suggested removing shooters or arenas, if you think it takes more to be an Arena Shooter Id say thats on you, no one else.
                  Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                  Comment


                    The idea is not that you just shoot in an arena, but you primarily use what you get in said arena, stop short of 100hp, and a default weapon or two, which are generally not supposed to be effective enough to keep you content with using them, creating incentive for you to wander about said arena. Area shooters are really about what drives you through the arena, not the mere existence of it.

                    So no, IG is really not arena. Nor are, apparently, some of the most popular game types in these games, such as CA and TAM.

                    NI (No Item) variations of play are a supplement, or fix for aspects of arena shooters that have been perpetuated in a less desirable or broken way. I personally, have always been a fan of these game types because I don't enjoy how central big powerups and armors are to arena play, but do enjoy the arenas, guns, and movement. Their centricity, like the belt-centricity in UT, is mostly subsequent of how advantageous controlling them is, which is then compounded by how easy it is to control multiple elements of the arena, with with direct contest from a similarly skilled opponent.

                    Most of these issues can be addressed by tweaking the armor and health system, while in fact increasing the skill ceiling of the game.
                    Originally posted by Mysterial
                    An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by -AEnubis- View Post
                      The idea is not that you just shoot in an arena, but you primarily use what you get in said arena, stop short of 100hp, and a default weapon or two, which are generally not supposed to be effective enough to keep you content with using them, creating incentive for you to wander about said arena. Area shooters are really about what drives you through the arena, not the mere existence of it.

                      So no, IG is really not arena. Nor are, apparently, some of the most popular game types in these games, such as CA and TAM.
                      I cant agree with that, the existence of the arena sets down a territory to control so you dont lose that aspect from not having pickup bases. Thats not even to mention the plethora of other ways you could receive items/weapons/upgrades etc. There is nothing in the mention of Arena Shooter which compels me to act in any way I wouldnt otherwise, its a simple a label and a very poor one at that!

                      Perhaps first person multipayer weapon and other fancy pickups n **** but not necessarily arena arena...
                      Last edited by MonsOlympus; 02-29-2016, 01:22 AM.
                      Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                      Comment


                        So then are maps the difference? From a technical stand point, every map, indoor, outdoor, combinations, or in between is a "limited space" by the simple limitations of the engine. This would mean every shooter is "arena" thus rendering the term meaninglessly redundant. CoD would be arena. If that enclosure needs to be "indoor" for it to be arena, then ONS is not arena, and maps like Antalus, and Outside are questionable.

                        The question you have to ask yourself is what attributes are unique to the name (adj) that make it unique, or even worth mention?

                        When I say FPSz, do you think of UT? Some UT maps have a significant amount of Z-axis play, but the movement (sans a certain pickup) really doesn't inherently convey it. Tribes on the other hand, equips everyone with jetpacks. Tribes also spawns you with a limited load out, and you have to acquire the rest in the Arenas, which are mostly outdoor, though usually with indoor areas. Ultimately, FPSz can be deduced as shooters where you can essentially fly, via one means or another. Ascend spawns you loaded. It is FPSz, but I wouldn't say it's Arena. Tribes only really even had soft map borders, and it was still Arena.

                        One thing most military shooters have in common is that you spawn loaded. Confrontation is driven mostly by explicit objectives. They are not usually considered Arena.
                        Originally posted by Mysterial
                        An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
                          Thast the thing I dont have a definition because I dont even consider Arena Shooter to be anything other than what it says, I dont think its some kind of genre or concept that exceeds the sum of its parts.

                          For me a game doesnt not A. Have to be 3D, B. Have guns... An arena shooter doesnt need to be either of those things, it doesnt even need pickups or any controlling aspect or even MP for that matter! Just because your narrow ideal of an Arena Shooter is more does not make it so, Im not saying youre wrong just that your perspective is clearly biased and what we needed in this thread was unbiased comments.
                          From another thread, here was my definition:
                          Originally posted by richardboegli View Post
                          This was my definition of an Arena FPS.
                          Run around a map (Arena) in first person (FPS) and try to get highest frag count in the simplest possible way.
                          This is fun to me. I'm quite simple like that
                          I like running in and attacking stuff (shooting / hitting). Point Click Kill. (I said shooting in another thread, but I meant shooting as in some from of attack).

                          To me this is the CORE of an Arena FPS. I agree with [MENTION=891]MonsOlympus[/MENTION] in that an Arena Shooter is just the same without the FPS part and doesn't even need to have guns.
                          Running around attacking opponents, that's all it needs to be.

                          Originally posted by -AEnubis- View Post
                          The idea is not that you just shoot in an arena, but you primarily use what you get in said arena, stop short of 100hp, and a default weapon or two, which are generally not supposed to be effective enough to keep you content with using them, creating incentive for you to wander about said arena. Area shooters are really about what drives you through the arena, not the mere existence of it.

                          So no, IG is really not arena. Nor are, apparently, some of the most popular game types in these games, such as CA and TAM.
                          I have an alternate view to this (see my definition quote above and quote below), but I can appreciate how people enjoy this part of the gameplay. To me, collecting items is boring and that's my point of view.

                          Originally posted by richardboegli View Post
                          Learning the map layout, spawn location and timing of items never really interested me.
                          While I can appreciate how this appeals to others I personally don't find it fun.
                          To me its the grind before the action starts.
                          Originally posted by -AEnubis- View Post
                          NI (No Item) variations of play are a supplement, or fix for aspects of arena shooters that have been perpetuated in a less desirable or broken way.

                          I personally, have always been a fan of these game types because I don't enjoy how central big powerups and armors are to arena play, but do enjoy the arenas, guns, and movement. Their centricity, like the belt-centricity in UT, is mostly subsequent of how advantageous controlling them is, which is then compounded by how easy it is to control multiple elements of the arena, with with direct contest from a similarly skilled opponent.
                          I just like to get in and attack
                          Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post

                            Perhaps first person multipayer weapon and other fancy pickups n **** but not necessarily arena arena...
                            Originally posted by -AEnubis- View Post
                            So then are maps the difference? From a technical stand point, every map, indoor, outdoor, combinations, or in between is a "limited space" by the simple limitations of the engine. This would mean every shooter is "arena" thus rendering the term meaninglessly redundant. CoD would be arena. If that enclosure needs to be "indoor" for it to be arena, then ONS is not arena, and maps like Antalus, and Outside are questionable.

                            The question you have to ask yourself is what attributes are unique to the name (adj) that make it unique, or even worth mention?
                            I was writing my other post while you were both replying

                            As there isn't a hard definition of what constitutes an Arena FPS, I think there is just a general understanding that while both UT and COD are both FPS, only UT is Arena FPS.

                            Originally posted by richardboegli View Post
                            This was my definition of an Arena FPS.
                            Run around a map (Arena) in first person (FPS) and try to get highest frag count in the simplest possible way.
                            This is fun to me. I'm quite simple like that
                            By my definition, COD would actually still be an Arena FPS....So I guess my definition for Arena FPS is just the definition of FPS.

                            If people want to formally define what an Arena FPS actually is, then we can see what games are and aren't.

                            Doesn't really bother me either way, if I find it fun I'll play it.
                            Last edited by richardboegli; 02-29-2016, 01:46 AM. Reason: wordcraft
                            Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

                            Comment


                              I see this thread has derailed off into debates over what is and is not an arena shooter, but I'll add my two cents on the topic anyway.

                              The problem I see with most arena shooters is that they don't allow for players with varied skill sets to have a good time. They have a very narrow set of mechanical skills that are required for a player to even be remotely competitive and for a lot of people, that just isn't fun. And, while I know I'll offend tons of veterans by saying this, I agree with them. I don't have fun meticulously learning spawn locations, item locations and respawn timers, and having to keep track of all of this stuff in my head whilst I'm fighting. It spreads my mental thought processes way too thin (which isn't helped by the fact that I'm borderline ADD, but that's another story). I do, however, have fun when I'm actually fighting another player, at least when I don't get instantly melted.

                              But then again, for a lot of people, everything I just described is what makes an arena FPS. So maybe I and many other people just have to accept the fact that this game will never be for us.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by richardboegli View Post
                                I was writing my other post while you were both replying

                                As there isn't a hard definition of what constitutes an Arena FPS, I think there is just a general understanding that while both UT and COD are both FPS, only UT is Arena FPS.

                                By my definition, COD would actually still be an Arena FPS....So I guess my definition for Arena FPS is just the definition of FPS.

                                If people want to formally define what an Arena FPS actually is, then we can see what games are and aren't.

                                Doesn't really bother me either way, if I find it fun I'll play it.
                                Yeah I consider TF2 to be Arena FPS, it even has an Arena mode (which doesnt have pickups except health) and look at what [MENTION=6958]-AEnubis-[/MENTION] wrote about Team Arena Master. Im just more concerned in actually developing a fun game for everyone than using labels to include features and/or exclude people I agree about COD too and I would consider CS and Arena game too, not something like Battlefield though because its levels are less Arena-like. Unreal Championship 2 is still an Arena Shooter and it has loadouts.

                                Who cares how I define games though or how I define this UT even vs previous UTs, what matters is this game, now, moving forward into the realm of modern game design. There is absolutely no reason to remake what people consider perfect in the previous UT games is there? Honestly Im happy to leave people in the past.
                                Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

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