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What would make people play arena FPS games again. Thoughts from non arenafps players

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    Originally posted by Dementiurge View Post
    UT3 adhered to everything that you say makes an arena shooter. The Necris vehicles only showed up in the vehicle modes, and there were Axon only map variants.

    Several of the things that you list as Arena FPS trademarks are... well, let's say that their opposites are draws. Players are drawn to more casual game modes, player customization, and strategy that isn't basic math and a clock. Piling 20+ fire modes on a single character may be outright harmful to gameplay, owing to the number of redundant or rarely utilized fire modes.

    I don't suppose you picture large numbers of people wanting to actually play this game? :P
    Well, that's the crux of the matter i think. I'd like to see a pure UT game, and not 'some' game which has been made purely to serve the lowest common denominator. I'm always sad when i see games go that route - There is this notion that the market is already saturated, and you need to make a game that can 'compete' in order for it to survive and thrive. The actual game isn't really given the light of day, and instead we get the same-ish hollywood blockbuster type of games that can't be distinguished from one another, made *just* to sell and maybe survive for a year before the publisher gives up on it.

    I want UT to be a game UT people want to play, not a game my mother would want to play. She's got her own stuff, i don't need to try and get her into this just to make some money. It's an extreme example, but i hope you get my point, because where do you draw the line otherwise?

    Keep the game pure and beholden to its own identity. Don't try and 'sell' it. Of course you want as many people as possible to play it, but do you want as many people as possible to play *your* game, or a game *they* want to play? Or rather, a game you *think* they want to play.


    Honestly, the market is rife with overly simplified shooters right now. 2 weapons, classes, unlocks, but overall its kept very simple to appeal to as many people as possible. For anyone who hasn't spent a lot of time with for example Battlefield and Call of Duty, they might seem completely identical to one another, except one has vehicles and larger maps, and honestly that makes me kind of sad.

    Also, it's very late and this post may sound a bit ranty, but i think you will understand what i'm trying to say here

    That said, i also think there's a gap in the market right now for a slightly more involved shooter experience.

    Comment


      What I find modern shooters lack is dexterity in movement, or a natural feeling of being able to move around without being heavily limited. In UT this is not an issue, and this is why UT is the only game I play now. It is great to be able to feel connected to your character in game and feel that you can move freely. There are still some issues, but it's getting there. Many modern games feel like you are in a wheelchair when trying to move.

      The other thing I dislike in modern shooters is overemphasis on unlocks, xp and balance of weapons. While some balance is necessary, it is important not to over balance to the point that it doesn't matter what gun you have when. Part of the fun of an FPS is the various advantages of various weapons - I think Epic has this mostly right.

      Finally, a really high skill ceiling is important for the games longevity and to keep players interested in general. Unlocks and XP is all fake fluff when compared to actual in-game skill that takes time and effort to develop and improve. The game should not be designed or geared towards newbies, this is a guaranteed failure. What keeps people interested is a challenge and competition, not pretty hats or sunglasses.

      I'd say the most important thing is great, natural-feeling sporty movement!
      Last edited by lg-; 03-05-2016, 12:23 PM.

      Comment


        Originally posted by lupinglade2 View Post
        What I find modern shooters lack is dexterity in movement, or a natural feeling of being able to move around without being heavily limited. In UT this is not an issue, and this is why UT is the only game I play now. It is great to be able to feel connected to your character in game and feel that you can move freely. There are still some issues, but it's getting there. Many modern games feel like you are in a wheelchair when trying to move.
        Could this be a product of console shooters having to slow movement to match the sensitivity of controllers?

        When I used a kbd /mouse converter to play Destiny on console, I couldn't set the in game sensitivity to match my normal.sensitivity which I use when I play ArenaFPSes.
        Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

        Comment


          Originally posted by richardboegli View Post
          Could this be a product of console shooters having to slow movement to match the sensitivity of controllers?

          When I used a kbd /mouse converter to play Destiny on console, I couldn't set the in game sensitivity to match my normal.sensitivity which I use when I play ArenaFPSes.
          Absolutely, consoles and in general trying to make games into a movie has caused these problems. This is the only reason FPS shooters became less popular - because developers stopped making quality shooters. It's all graphics, pre-recorded animations - FPS on rails. It's not just speed, it's all movement.

          Comment


            Originally posted by lupinglade2 View Post
            What I find modern shooters lack is dexterity in movement, or a natural feeling of being able to move around without being heavily limited. In UT this is not an issue, and this is why UT is the only game I play now. It is great to be able to feel connected to your character in game and feel that you can move freely. There are still some issues, but it's getting there. Many modern games feel like you are in a wheelchair when trying to move.

            The other thing I dislike in modern shooters is overemphasis on unlocks, xp and balance of weapons. While some balance is necessary, it is important not to over balance to the point that it doesn't matter what gun you have when. Part of the fun of an FPS is the various advantages of various weapons - I think Epic has this mostly right.

            Finally, a really high skill ceiling is important for the games longevity and to keep players interested in general. Unlocks and XP is all fake fluff when compared to actual in-game skill that takes time and effort to develop and improve. The game should not be designed or geared towards newbies, this is a guaranteed failure. What keeps people interested is a challenge and competition, not pretty hats or sunglasses.

            I'd say the most important thing is great, natural-feeling sporty movement!
            Ironically, I don't see what is skill based in winning games running around with Udamage, belt or redeemer stacked.
            I'd rather play Halo than wasting my time killing people effortlessly with sniper rifle + udamage.

            Comment


              Originally posted by 3Dmatic View Post
              Ironically, I don't see what is skill based in winning games running around with Udamage, belt or redeemer stacked.
              I'd rather play Halo than wasting my time killing people effortlessly with sniper rifle + udamage.
              Have you played TAM / LTS?
              Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

              Comment


                But you need to get that udamage first

                Comment


                  Originally posted by lupinglade2 View Post
                  Absolutely, consoles and in general trying to make games into a movie has caused these problems. This is the only reason FPS shooters became less popular - because developers stopped making quality shooters. It's all graphics, pre-recorded animations - FPS on rails. It's not just speed, it's all movement.
                  This is why I'd like to see UT4 on console.
                  So the console market can see a good FPS is like.
                  Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by richardboegli View Post
                    This is why I'd like to see UT4 on console.
                    So the console market can see a good FPS is like.
                    A console can't have a good FPS - no good input devices. At least not one that everyone has. Death to consoles, I say.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by lupinglade2 View Post
                      A console can't have a good FPS - no good input devices. At least not one that everyone has. Death to consoles, I say.
                      Extend, Embrace, Extinguish.

                      UT4 will outlive the current Gen of consoles.

                      When players realise how much they are getting beaten, they'll potentially switch over to PC to have the better control scheme.

                      You can still use kbd / mouse on console using either a XIM or a cronusmax although its not ideal.
                      Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by richardboegli View Post
                        Extend, Embrace, Extinguish.

                        UT4 will outlive the current Gen of consoles.

                        When players realise how much they are getting beaten, they'll potentially switch over to PC to have the better control scheme.

                        You can still use kbd / mouse on console using either a XIM or a cronusmax although its not ideal.
                        They can't realize much since they are used to and stuck with crappy console controllers and are playing against the same. The only way they can realize is by playing on a PC.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by lupinglade2 View Post
                          They can't realize much since they are used to and stuck with crappy console controllers and are playing against the same. The only way they can realize is by playing on a PC.
                          Fair point. I was going more for the angle that if UT4 was cross play across PC and console, when console players get beaten really badly they'll consider going to PC.
                          Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by richardboegli View Post
                            Fair point. I was going more for the angle that if UT4 was cross play across PC and console, when console players get beaten really badly they'll consider going to PC.
                            Haha then yes but no one ever does this because it means the console version will fail.

                            Comment


                              There are tons of average players on any game on PC. Console players would help add players to the player pool on PC if UT was crossplatform. And some of the best console players, if UT could offer decent game controls for game controllers, could play against some of the best players on PC. They might not win against the very best players on PC using mouse & keyboard, but they would be able to enjoy the game regardless. Winning isn't the end game. If someone plays FPS games, it should be about the journey and self-improvement. If someone can't enjoy losing 80-0 and keep playing, competitive games aren't for him/her.

                              Originally posted by richardboegli View Post
                              Have you played TAM / LTS?
                              I do prefer to start with all weapons. It's the only way in UT that a player can fully embrace the game. To run around with Udamage doesn't excite me a bit, it's cheap. I see the value in having items on map to add ''strategy'' and starting only with Enforcer. But I see more combat strategy in having all 10 weapons available right from the start, but that's just me. Items on map, over time, I think... actually makes the game and maps more repetitive linear, predictable and a bit boring.
                              Last edited by 3Dmatic; 03-05-2016, 01:15 PM.

                              Comment


                                Casual players - is gutless flock. They don't play in something simple and understandable, but only what is best advertised.

                                Advertisement, advertisement and again advertisement. This is what provides the base of casual gamers, not mythical simplicity.

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