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What would make people play arena FPS games again. Thoughts from non arenafps players

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    #91
    Originally posted by Artaneius View Post
    I'm starting to think every arena/competitve gamer needs to take a basic 101 economic class before saying something like this...
    So we can better understand how to sell a free game?
    Originally posted by Mysterial
    An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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      #92
      Originally posted by 3Dmatic View Post
      Arena Shooters were step 1. Halo was step 2. Step 3 takes a look at 1 and 2 and what's next is different. UT3 failed because it was trying hard to remain the same and we are seeing it all over again with this project despite the little changes and improvements.
      Imagine how different the FPS landscape would have been if Halo stayed on PC for initial release. I was really looking forward to the game being on PC.
      Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

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        #93
        Originally posted by 3Dmatic View Post
        Arena Shooters were step 1. Halo was step 2. Step 3 takes a look at 1 and 2 and what's next is different. UT3 failed because it was trying hard to remain the same and we are seeing it all over again with this project despite the little changes and improvements.


        Is this real life?

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          #94
          Originally posted by richardboegli View Post
          Imagine how different the FPS landscape would have been if Halo stayed on PC for initial release. I was really looking forward to the game being on PC.
          If that game wouldn't have been dumbed down and would simply have been released on PC, things would have been very different. Quake/UT players wouldn't bash the series as much as they do now.

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            #95
            Originally posted by 3Dmatic View Post
            If that game wouldn't have been dumbed down and would simply have been released on PC, things would have been very different. Quake/UT players wouldn't bash the series as much as they do now.
            Pretty sure they would still bash it with how terrible Halo 1 was. Unless they actually made it better, but I doubt it.

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              #96
              No, so you can better understand that in the entertainment business what pleases the majority is what goes. So many competitive gamers have this backward's concept that they think are "experts" in the gaming industry. Your not. Now for some that are making content for UT and running communities and servers etc. you are. But this statement is to all the competitive gamers that don't do anything else except play the game. Your not experts. In no way shape or form by dedicating hundreds/thousands of hours a year in a single game are you doing anything that would consider you an "expert". In fact your making things worse by building up your ego, destroying lesser skilled players, and making sure they don't want to come back. Your more like bullies than experts. And I've seen this time and time again throughout my past 20 years of online gaming. Some competitive gamers are decent folk, but the vast majority of em aren't. They could care less about the health of the game, all they care about is their own entertainment and fun.

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                #97
                The most experienced players are in a better position to give feedback and help design games. However, there are different types and we cannot put all of them in the same basket. There is a type of experienced players who are skilled, can provide valuable feedback on how to polish gameplay mechanics, but are unable to perceive all the flaws. In other words, they'll see the challenge of juggles in fighting games or bunnyhopping without really understanding how those mechanics can negatively affect gameplay. There are the ones who got a solid understanding of game design and can fix design issues to turn a game into gold. This type would have removed bunnhyhopping and replaced it with dodge. And there are those who managed to get really good at games, but never processed it mentally, it has more to do with muscle memory, sub-conscious process, getting used to the environment, patterns, etc. Their feedback can be useful to polish the game, but that's about it.

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                  #98
                  Originally posted by Artaneius View Post
                  No, so you can better understand that in the entertainment business what pleases the majority is what goes. So many competitive gamers have this backward's concept that they think are "experts" in the gaming industry. Your not. Now for some that are making content for UT and running communities and servers etc. you are. But this statement is to all the competitive gamers that don't do anything else except play the game. Your not experts. In no way shape or form by dedicating hundreds/thousands of hours a year in a single game are you doing anything that would consider you an "expert". In fact your making things worse by building up your ego, destroying lesser skilled players, and making sure they don't want to come back. Your more like bullies than experts. And I've seen this time and time again throughout my past 20 years of online gaming. Some competitive gamers are decent folk, but the vast majority of em aren't. They could care less about the health of the game, all they care about is their own entertainment and fun.
                  I agree with this emphatically.

                  Instead of thinking of Arena FPS as a genre of games, think of it as a genre of players.
                  These players have already chosen their favorite games, and every game that attempts to succeed these old games is essentially tailored for Arena FPS players and their preconceived notions of what an arena FPS game should be. Arena FPS gamers abhor change and novelty, because it leads away from the 'core' gameplay that they have defined themselves by. Unsurprisingly, they still play the same old games they always have, while new arrivals are met with mild or dismissive interest. Arena FPS players have claimed the notion of "competitive" gaming as their own and demand that you adjust to their games and genre, rather than the other way around, even as gaming and esports have abandoned them to history.

                  Is it any mystery that outsiders would not embrace games that are made for (and often by) Arena FPS gamers?

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                    #99
                    Having played so many FPS games for so many years, what people call Arena Shooters is no different from Headquarter or Oddball or Conquest or etc. The only difference is that all other gametypes of UT are variations of that mode. The difference is that some UT players are looking at it under a microscope, but in the bigger picture... most players might not necessarily associate any FPS game with a specific gametype. I can't associate Halo with any particular gametype. I wish Counter-Strike had more gametypes. I wish UT wasn't constraining itself so hard around that classic format. Etc.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by 3Dmatic View Post
                      If that game wouldn't have been dumbed down and would simply have been released on PC, things would have been very different. Quake/UT players wouldn't bash the series as much as they do now.
                      Agreed.

                      Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
                      Pretty sure they would still bash it with how terrible Halo 1 was. Unless they actually made it better, but I doubt it.
                      Halo 1 had a weird life.
                      1) Originally an RTS ,
                      2) then third person shooter,
                      3) then FPS,
                      4) then bought by Microsoft adjusted for Xbox,
                      5) then ported back to PC

                      Note: this is the order (3 than 4) that I recall and it doesn't match the Wikipedia entry, but I don't have a linkable source to prove otherwise.

                      The Halo PC version was very different IMHO then the original PC version before it got ported to Xbox.

                      So I think in its original form and had it been released in 2000/2001 on PC instead of 2003 would have adjusted the PC FPS environment, but this is only pure speculation.

                      History is written by the victors
                      Last edited by richardboegli; 02-26-2016, 08:32 PM. Reason: note
                      Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by richardboegli View Post
                        Agreed.



                        Halo 1 had a weird life.
                        1) Originally an RTS ,
                        2) then third person shooter,
                        3) then FPS,
                        4) then bought by Microsoft adjusted for Xbox,
                        5) then ported back to PC

                        Note: this is the order (3 than 4) that I recall and it doesn't match the Wikipedia entry, but I don't have a linkable source to prove otherwise.

                        The Halo PC version was very different IMHO then the original PC version before it got ported to Xbox.

                        So I think in its original form and had it been released in 2000/2001 on PC instead of 2003 would have adjusted the PC FPS environment, but this is only pure speculation.

                        History is written by the victors
                        Ah, I'm not sure which Halo I've played.. We had a LAN party with it at school lol, and it felt slow as molasses. Probably was the ported console version, then.

                        Comment


                          But anyway guys, it's all good if the UT team are focused on creating another UT. It will please many loyal fans and they well deserve it. Modders, including me, already started to take this matter into their own hands. We got the Chaos mod, Aberiu is doing his thing, Wail is doing his thing, MonsOlympus is doing his thing, etc. I wish the next Unreal Tournament could have been that next big thing again as it once were, but I'm afraid it's not going to happen.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
                            Ah, I'm not sure which Halo I've played.. We had a LAN party with it at school lol, and it felt slow as molasses. Probably was the ported console version, then.
                            I think richard is talking about the version of Halo that was in development before Microsoft bought Bungie.
                            The released version of Halo has always been slow, with high jump height. This made sense in Halo:CE, where the game was set on a space station, but Halo 2 was set on Earth and all Bungie changed was the weapons.

                            Originally posted by richardboegli View Post
                            Agreed.



                            Halo 1 had a weird life.
                            1) Originally an RTS ,
                            2) then third person shooter,
                            3) then FPS,
                            4) then bought by Microsoft adjusted for Xbox,
                            5) then ported back to PC

                            The Halo PC version was very different IMHO then the original PC version before it got ported to Xbox.

                            So I think in its original form and had it been released in 2000/2001 on PC instead of 2003 would have adjusted the PC FPS environment, but this is only pure speculation.

                            History is written by the victors
                            UT was going to an expansion pack for Unreal.
                            Activision wanted Call of Duty 4 to be another WW2 game.
                            Team Fortress 2 was going to look like a vietnam-era shooter.
                            Id thought Rage might actually be good.

                            History goes in funny directions, but that's all you'll ever learn from playing the what-if game.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
                              Ah, I'm not sure which Halo I've played.. We had a LAN party with it at school lol, and it felt slow as molasses. Probably was the ported console version, then.
                              Yeah, when it came back from Xbox I don't think they sped it up again, but apparently Bungie actually like to make the speed slower so that you'd see more, had to use more strategy because of no health pickups and shield regeneration etc...
                              Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Dementiurge View Post
                                I think richard is talking about the version of Halo that was in development before Microsoft bought Bungie.
                                The released version of Halo has always been slow, with high jump height. This made sense in Halo:CE, where the game was set on a space station, but Halo 2 was set on Earth and all Bungie changed was the weapons.
                                Yeah I was. The original gameplay I recall seeing before going to Xbox looked faster, but this is 15+ years ago and I might be remembering wrong
                                Originally posted by Dementiurge View Post
                                UT was going to an expansion pack for Unreal.
                                Activision wanted Call of Duty 4 to be another WW2 game.
                                Team Fortress 2 was going to look like a vietnam-era shooter.
                                Id thought Rage might actually be good.

                                History goes in funny directions, but that's all you'll ever learn from playing the what-if game.
                                Yeah, we've seen some interesting twists anf turns in FPS land
                                Last edited by richardboegli; 02-26-2016, 09:34 PM. Reason: wordcraft
                                Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

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