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    Leave the past behind

    So, I see alot comments about how 99 or 2k4 was better. How people tend to go for either the ut99 or the ut2k4 version or even a mixture between those two.
    All of us want to have the best UT there ever was and alot of people have different opinions but in the end it's always about the past UT's and their strong points.

    I see alot of people talking about weapon balance and playerbase.
    Fact is, atm we have not perfect weapon balance and almost no players. So does these two factors have anything to do with each other?

    No.

    The reason is also not that we are in alpha. Lots of games are in alpha, alot of early access games on steam have a solid playerbase.
    And UT atm is far from a buggy/glitchy experience.

    It's also not marketing, so many youtubers have houndreds of thousands of views on their single UT4 vid, and after that they never play it again or make another vid.


    It's usually the fact that UT is dead. Yes I said it...
    Of course Im not talking about the old UT's, because it wouldnt make sense, those games are years old.

    But the franchise in general, the franchise is not a "thing" anymore. The way UT is now, it will not be popular. It will not be a "Thing" like CS:GO for example.

    My point is, if UT sticks to his roots so much that it almost doesn't change, especially regarding movement and shooting mechanics and also modes, It will fail.

    This community is full of hardcore oldschoolers, I see some good ideas and posts from people about new features but most people just want to old UT back with better graphics.
    Now there are also players here who are happy with having 100 players a day, one full server for each mode which they can play everday for an hour and then go to bed. But people like me who want more, want a better and bigger game and are able to leave the past behind, let go and make another UT which fits in todays gaming standards.

    Something which builds a bigger community, because it offers more stuff and easier access to people who never played UT. Something which is maybe not for everyone but for atleast so much people that the game attracts thousands of players each day to come in and play another round.

    Of course it should still be UT, a skillbased arena shooter, but doesnt have to play exactly like the old ones.

    This game is going nowhere if people dont focus on more important things than weapon balance. Weaponbalance...a new player doesnt even know what weapon is good or not, he goes into the game plays for 20mins and realize that this game is not fun. And yes, I introduced alot of new people to UT and none of them liked it.

    Prioritys are important. But I don't know what plans EPIC has, make a game for the few old schoolers from back then, or sacrifice some of them and make something big. I would like to know that.

    In the end I just hope people open up their minds, don't always think what was back then, more like what could be fun to play. There are so many possibilities and so many good Ideas here. UT needs a change to survive, I rather have a different UT than a dead UT.


    I hope for not too much hate after this post, and some honest opinions,

    Thanks

    #2
    Originally posted by M3lony View Post
    So, I see alot comments about how 99 or 2k4 was better. How people tend to go for either the ut99 or the ut2k4 version or even a mixture between those two.
    All of us want to have the best UT there ever was and alot of people have different opinions but in the end it's always about the past UT's and their strong points.

    I see alot of people talking about weapon balance and playerbase.
    Fact is, atm we have not perfect weapon balance and almost no players. So does these two factors have anything to do with each other?

    No.

    The reason is also not that we are in alpha. Lots of games are in alpha, alot of early access games on steam have a solid playerbase.
    And UT atm is far from a buggy/glitchy experience.

    It's also not marketing, so many youtubers have houndreds of thousands of views on their single UT4 vid, and after that they never play it again or make another vid.


    It's usually the fact that UT is dead. Yes I said it...
    Of course Im not talking about the old UT's, because it wouldnt make sense, those games are years old.

    But the franchise in general, the franchise is not a "thing" anymore. The way UT is now, it will not be popular. It will not be a "Thing" like CS:GO for example.

    My point is, if UT sticks to his roots so much that it almost doesn't change, especially regarding movement and shooting mechanics and also modes, It will fail.

    This community is full of hardcore oldschoolers, I see some good ideas and posts from people about new features but most people just want to old UT back with better graphics.
    Now there are also players here who are happy with having 100 players a day, one full server for each mode which they can play everday for an hour and then go to bed. But people like me who want more, want a better and bigger game and are able to leave the past behind, let go and make another UT which fits in todays gaming standards.

    Something which builds a bigger community, because it offers more stuff and easier access to people who never played UT. Something which is maybe not for everyone but for atleast so much people that the game attracts thousands of players each day to come in and play another round.

    Of course it should still be UT, a skillbased arena shooter, but doesnt have to play exactly like the old ones.

    This game is going nowhere if people dont focus on more important things than weapon balance. Weaponbalance...a new player doesnt even know what weapon is good or not, he goes into the game plays for 20mins and realize that this game is not fun. And yes, I introduced alot of new people to UT and none of them liked it.

    Prioritys are important. But I don't know what plans EPIC has, make a game for the few old schoolers from back then, or sacrifice some of them and make something big. I would like to know that.

    In the end I just hope people open up their minds, don't always think what was back then, more like what could be fun to play. There are so many possibilities and so many good Ideas here. UT needs a change to survive, I rather have a different UT than a dead UT.


    I hope for not too much hate after this post, and some honest opinions,

    Thanks
    No hate from me mate, Id say your right on the money with your post (Make this ut what ut2k3 was to ut99, Fresh!, new! innovative!!!, its
    time for change or we'll be playing ut99/2k3/4 for years to come seeing the same old 100 or so faces and names but we'll all just be a little longer in the tooth pining for another ut which wont happen, If epic f this one up again!!)

    Comment


      #3
      EPIC want to make an esport title. So this would infer they want to maximize the playerbase.

      At the end of the day, everyone wants to make the best UT game possible.
      What isn't clear is what exactly does this look like, as many people have their own views and perspectives.

      The past serves as a reference point, so while we want to leave the mistakes from the past behind we need to review and learn from them so that the same mistakes aren't made again.

      Most of the community are people who have been with the franchise a long time, so they bring a wealth of knowledge to the table. There is a lot of focus on weapon balance because without it, its no fun. The community is providing their most valuable asset, which is time. So whatever they want to focus on is completely up to them. If it doesn't align with Epic's current schedule then so be it. The community is free to choose how they spend their time contributing.
      Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

      Comment


        #4
        "There are so many possibilities and so many good Ideas here"

        Which one according to you ?
        Cunni, 37 years old, 16 years of UT, 90% CTF, 10% Duel
        https://www.twitch.tv/cunni_ut
        http://plays.tv/u/Cunni
        Discord PUG Community

        Comment


          #5
          All of us want to have the best UT
          Then start by not ignoring the most successful one in the series

          Comment


            #6
            things already changed its not like you could invent hot water now.
            some guns changed and you can do few new trick jumps, jump with boots mid air unlike in ut99, you have different movement with wall slides and dodges, with different new and nice maps it can be interesting a lot with some new meta.
            add to this story vehicles mode which can be experimented a lot to bring that what you are talking about some interesting new stuff otherwise its not a copy of last games if you ask me.
            its not like you should change core completely because i can play those games at this moment, its all invented those casual games with big explosions and stuff and call of duty or similar ****s

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Backtired View Post
              Then start by not ignoring the most successful one in the series
              Back then maybe, what worked back then is not granted to work today. Things have changed, a new generation of players, new games, new standarts. To think what was back then fun , is fun now... kind of naive, no offense.

              Just an example, that's just my personal experience but UT always had this frog jump mechanic. You jump with double tap, walk, jump, walk. That's a horrible mechanic for a game in 2016. It's so clunky,the oposite of smooth and unnatural. I didn't care when I was 14-15 years old, but with having played almost every shooter on the market the last 10 years, I can say for myself that just this single movement mechanic is outdated even tho it's one of the core elements of UT.

              I usually dont say this stuff in the forum because I don't have a better solution for it and people don't want to change core mechanics.

              I would like some rly nice smooth movement, where you could put hundreds of hours in it, just to get better and because you have fun with it. The slide and wallrun like Danko said are a nice addition, I rly like that.
              There were also prototypes of movement based on momentum. Speed gain through movement and acceleration. Atm it just feels rly rusty and clunky.

              BUT, that's not the point of my thread, it doesnt matter what I want, my point was, open up to new things and mechanics as long as you think it would be fun and make sense.
              Get rid of the idea that it must be similiar to the old UTs, it doesn have to change the core completely but in the end it's not a remake, it's a new UT.
              Last edited by M3lony; 03-02-2016, 02:47 PM.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by M3lony View Post
                I would like some rly nice smooth movement, where you could put hundreds of hours in it, just to get better and because you have fun with it
                hey guess what, people did put hundreds of hours in it, and STILL have fun today in bunnytrack servers
                this point of "BUT ITS 2016" not only is retarded and stupid because you want something "fresh, new", but it's also detrimental

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by M3lony View Post

                  I would like some rly nice smooth movement, where you could put hundreds of hours in it, just to get better and because you have fun with it. The slide and wallrun like Danko said are a nice addition, I rly like that.
                  There were also prototypes of movement based on momentum. Speed gain through movement and acceleration. Atm it just feels rly rusty and clunky.
                  I like the sprint function that we have at the moment, but wanted either a sprint key or something else as I wanted to be able to control it immediately instead of waiting for it to "spin up" and only being able to run forwards.

                  Back in 2014 I proposed this: Idea - Inline/roller skates/hover skates - Proposal & reasoning to replace hoverboard and sprint

                  When you are using inline /roller skates:
                  • cannot fire
                  • can still change weapons
                  • move faster than running
                  • can still aim your crosshair at an enemy, let go of running key, weapon comes up and then fire
                  • stay in first person mode
                  • can be towed by vehicles
                  • team / rocket / impact boost to go faster and faster


                  The idea is that it would allow for a much more fluid movement experience.

                  If you want to "frog jump" as you say, then you still can and you have your weapon armed.

                  If you want something faster and slicker, then hover skates (name suggested by [MENTION=717]Wormbo[/MENTION])
                  Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by richardboegli View Post
                    I like the sprint function that we have at the moment, but wanted either a sprint key or something else as I wanted to be able to control it immediately instead of waiting for it to "spin up" and only being able to run forwards.

                    Back in 2014 I proposed this: Idea - Inline/roller skates/hover skates - Proposal & reasoning to replace hoverboard and sprint

                    When you are using inline /roller skates:
                    • cannot fire
                    • can still change weapons
                    • move faster than running
                    • can still aim your crosshair at an enemy, let go of running key, weapon comes up and then fire
                    • stay in first person mode
                    • can be towed by vehicles
                    • team / rocket / impact boost to go faster and faster


                    The idea is that it would allow for a much more fluid movement experience.

                    If you want to "frog jump" as you say, then you still can and you have your weapon armed.

                    If you want something faster and slicker, then hover skates (name suggested by @Wormbo)
                    I like the idea, probably will never happen but it sounds definitely better than the hoverboard when I think about it.

                    I'm currently trying out the ut editor. Maybe some day I will be able to make my own movements to see if it even works out.


                    This is also interesting:

                    https://forums.unrealtournament.com/...Slide-Wallrun)

                    a combo/flow movement system.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by M3lony View Post
                      I like the idea, probably will never happen but it sounds definitely better than the hoverboard when I think about it.

                      I'm currently trying out the ut editor. Maybe some day I will be able to make my own movements to see if it even works out.


                      This is also interesting:

                      https://forums.unrealtournament.com/...Slide-Wallrun)

                      a combo/flow movement system.
                      Thanks.
                      That's the great thing about UT and mutators, if you can imagine it and put in the hours to implement or inspire someone in the community to help out, it can become reality

                      I'll be posting a tutorial to help with doing basic movement stuff in Blueprints soon. I was just prototyping something a few hours ago and decided that a tutorial was required as I couldn't find one.

                      I'll PM you once its done.
                      Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Well, I posted my contribution. However, since I didn't include "movement of ut(x) da best", countless graphs and calculations why jump height has to be 152 uu and not 150 uu or any other flamable thread material, nobody even bothers to test it or leave a reply. I don't even know is download link working for others...

                        Meanwhile, threads "translocator needs to go" are straight up blazing. Just look at the tone of some replies - "if you won't do as I say, game will flop - FLOOOOP!!!1"

                        Not the most robust development proces, if you ask me...

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Hayrack View Post
                          Well, I posted my contribution. However, since I didn't include "movement of ut(x) da best", countless graphs and calculations why jump height has to be 152 uu and not 150 uu or any other flamable thread material, nobody even bothers to test it or leave a reply. I don't even know is download link working for others...

                          Meanwhile, threads "translocator needs to go" are straight up blazing. Just look at the tone of some replies - "if you won't do as I say, game will flop - FLOOOOP!!!1"

                          Not the most robust development proces, if you ask me...
                          [MENTION=262040]Hayrack[/MENTION], you've done the right thing in my opinion. Somehow the thread got missed.. .I've replied to your thread.

                          Originally posted by richardboegli View Post
                          Hi [MENTION=262040]Hayrack[/MENTION], I missed this thread completely.

                          I'll give it a go sometime today and give you some feedback.

                          Welcome to the forums.... thanks for taking the time to contribute. Sorry you didn't get any feedback.
                          Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

                          Comment


                            #14
                            A quick message to the OP.

                            We want a new game, but we want a game that takes skill. That is why we are complaining a lot. The weapons are bad, simple as that. Mouse lag still exists, we can't aim as well as we want to. Movement needs tweaking.

                            Everything about the core game needs tweaked in order for the community to stop complaining and *****ing.
                            Steam
                            irc.globalgamers.net #galaxy #unrealtournament #ut4pugs
                            UT Username - nvz
                            gg! Galaxy Gaming Community


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                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by nvz View Post
                              A quick message to the OP.

                              We want a new game, but we want a game that takes skill. That is why we are complaining a lot. The weapons are bad, simple as that. Mouse lag still exists, we can't aim as well as we want to. Movement needs tweaking.

                              Everything about the core game needs tweaked in order for the community to stop complaining and *****ing.
                              I agree with you that its important to balance the game and make and as skill based as possible.

                              The problem seems that the community doesnt know what it wants. The last update nerved the flak cannon, some people even were happy with that, most people dont like it the way they nerved it. I mean if EPIC always concentrates on the community and every single comment, we never move forward. It's been 2 years, 2 whole years and the game is still in some eyes not balanced, neither it's final when it's about movement.

                              Look at counterstrike global offensive, one of the most succesfull esport titles of all time. Is the weapon balance final? No, 4 years after release there are still coming balancing patches out.
                              Balancing is an ongoing process which will never stop. People think like it EPIC will get it perfect at some point and then finaly we can concentrate on other things but that will never happen and it just consumes so much worktime which could be invested in other parts of the game.

                              I just think, even with better balance, and "some" tweaks, the game is not gonna be good. Good for people who are long time UT fans, but for most other people outside this forum, still uninteresting.


                              BTW if something needs a tweak atm for example, it's the slide. It should interupptible by pressing the crouch key, and also you should be able to jump durring the slide. Some control direction wise would also be nice but not neccesary.
                              Once you slide you lose control, which is not a good mechanic for a skill based game.

                              Comment

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