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Enemy is green with envy: A way to add visual clarity & differentiate friend from foe

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    Enemy is green with envy: A way to add visual clarity & differentiate friend from foe

    Problem:
    After DM-Chill new meshed release the discussion of visual clarity has come up again.

    Solution:
    Basically, all enemies should have a green outline / glow to them.

    Regardless of what colour they are, Blue or Red, you know that you have to attack the green glowing opponent.

    Background:
    Had a few 2v2 TDM to help others practise for comp the other day.
    We had to return to HUB for something and ended up on different teams.
    It took a little while to readjust to being on different colour teams.

    I recall a few discussion about this in the past, but haven't gone searching through the archives yet.
    Someone else suggested green for all enemies, so I'm not claiming that it is my idea.

    So it turns out that it was @bass3 who mentioned it in @HenrikRyosa thread Brightskins SOLVED.

    Originally posted by bass3 View Post
    i want green always to be my enemies, like in ut2k4. You have to make it grey, then add UV RGB color over it, so you can customize RGB colors. And make it work somehow.
    EDIT: Found it and updated top post
    Last edited by richardboegli; 03-11-2016, 11:30 AM.
    Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

    #2
    So it turns out that it was [MENTION=6640]bass3[/MENTION] who mentioned it in [MENTION=6256]HenrikRyosa[/MENTION] thread Brightskins SOLVED.

    Originally posted by bass3 View Post
    i want green always to be my enemies, like in ut2k4. You have to make it grey, then add UV RGB color over it, so you can customize RGB colors. And make it work somehow.
    Basicly make another blueprint which calls UV color blend RGB to be changed as user wants, some people are color blind also, keep that in mind [/QUOTE]
    Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

    Comment


      #3
      [MENTION=891]MonsOlympus[/MENTION] you read my mind....

      Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
      This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

      All fixed guyz disaster averted!
      I started the post for this thread earlier in the evening, but got distracted.
      Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

      Comment


        #4
        imo this is completely unnecessary and ugly for any team based mode. For DM, it could make sense for the greyscale spectrum details of the characters to be converted into green hues at the same saturation as red and blue in team modes.

        UT4 modding discussion: irc.globalgamers.net #UTModders
        Contrib Digest | UT2341 - Henrik's UT4 Dev Blog | Twitter

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by HenrikRyosa View Post
          imo this is completely unnecessary and ugly for any team based mode. For DM, it could make sense for the greyscale spectrum details of the characters to be converted into green hues at the same saturation as red and blue in team modes.
          I agree that it might not look that pretty, but I'm trying to come up with a compromise.

          I don't like the idea of team colours in the first place, so I'm trying to find a way to work around the fact that it exists already.

          When playing casually I would always just stay on the red team and know that I'd have to shoot at blues. My name had the word red in it, so most people would never ask me to switch teams

          What I'm really thinking is something like the outline you get around the characters when spectating with X-ray mode on.

          Colour and skin to remain the same, but there is a green outline of your opponents.

          It might not even have to be green, just some colour which is consistent, maybe it could even be user selected. So if someone really wants a blue or red outline, then so be it.
          Last edited by richardboegli; 03-11-2016, 02:16 PM. Reason: add outline bit
          Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

          Comment


            #6
            It's a pain in the *** to see the enemy with the more textured maps. Right now I just avoid playing those maps even if they look really **** good. Since I just can't see the enemy model well enough.

            Comment


              #7
              What if we got rid of team colored skins altogether and instead use the standard DM skins across every gametype? There would be an in-game option in the menus to let players decide which color "outline" and/or "glow" they want for their team mates and which one for their enemies and at what intensities. Green or red or blue might be good for one player, but not for another - colorblind or not.

              Do it tastefully, of course, so the art people don't freak out; but make it effective so the competitive players don't freak out. I'm thinking something similar to the Enchantment effect on armor in Skyrim (again, with variable intensity). It would work similar to brightskins, but it wouldn't be the actual skin/texture of the character being changed - just an outline throughout the character's details and a variable-at-distance glow. I think this would help preserve the artist's original vision of their character model (i.e., without having to make them wear big, red, plastic-looking shoulder pads), but also be effective in team-based and even non-team based gametypes.

              Frankly though, as others have said, it's not just the colors on the character models anymore, it's also the character LIGHTING that really needs to be addressed.

              Comment


                #8
                Actually I did the skins by replacing them with emissive material . Here is tutorial, everyone can do it, problem is I am not c++ programmer, nor blueprint(er) whatever you callyourself ^^.

                https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest...low/index.html

                The characthers will not be exposed to shadows, ofc this can be controlled if you very good in blueprints you can make small shadows over your emissive colour/character and still have the brightskins. Its complicated for beginner like me,
                but experienced people who know how to use blueprint can make this in 10 minutes, cause it overlays the actual skin of player.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by richardboegli View Post
                  [MENTION=891]MonsOlympus[/MENTION] you read my mind....
                  I used the one of the new 4.11 features, lighting channels to do this, the character is not lit by any of the environment lights at all and is lit by acouple of directional lights which only light the characters lighting channel.

                  I honestly have no issues seeing players, I can spot camouflaged players on BF hardcore servers so UT is a cakewalk in comparison. This could make a nice radioactive glow though, I just did it for a laugh, it took me under 18 mins to make the same time as cafes (cropped) video ripping into Chill.
                  Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by «MechikTåj» View Post
                    What if we got rid of team colored skins altogether and instead use the standard DM skins across every gametype? There would be an in-game option in the menus to let players decide which color "outline" and/or "glow" they want for their team mates and which one for their enemies and at what intensities. Green or red or blue might be good for one player, but not for another - colorblind or not.

                    Do it tastefully, of course, so the art people don't freak out; but make it effective so the competitive players don't freak out. I'm thinking something similar to the Enchantment effect on armor in Skyrim (again, with variable intensity). It would work similar to brightskins, but it wouldn't be the actual skin/texture of the character being changed - just an outline throughout the character's details and a variable-at-distance glow. I think this would help preserve the artist's original vision of their character model (i.e., without having to make them wear big, red, plastic-looking shoulder pads), but also be effective in team-based and even non-team based gametypes.

                    Frankly though, as others have said, it's not just the colors on the character models anymore, it's also the character LIGHTING that really needs to be addressed.
                    They actually tried something like this with Brink and it failed pretty hard, theirs wasnt subtle but thats the thing with overlays is its extremely difficult to do subtle yet visible. People already have issues with the crosshair, part of it has to do with the fact these are artificial layers that dont exist in the game world so its difficult for them to get data about the world, you can make complex shaders but if its on your screen all the time in the middle or for character highlights it can have quite an affect on performance.

                    I really appreciate the tone of your post, its refreshing to see someone propose something in a community minded manner rather than just lay out their demands. I personally like the DM skins, sure the Necris is black and white and annoyingly skinny but I think thats more a problem with those particular characters, the others are very reasonable in comparison. Green is a nice easy to see colour, my main issue there being that there are acouple of green weapons and green health/lights etc that can clash.

                    I dont like the new team skins at all they are far too solid colour and they lose detail, they look like big walking crayolas not bad *** intergalactic bloodsport contestants.

                    I did have a shot at character lighting but only a few light types worked, I think it will be on the level designers to use a special light type for highlighting characters more in dimly lit areas, it also means they can light the character alittle darker for light areas. Im not sure how Epic planned to have it work but Steve did talk about it but I couldnt seem to get it working in a decent enough manner, it really needs to function like a dynamic ambient light.

                    The issue with 2k4s ambient light is that it was always on so for light areas it made the characters blend in with the surroundings, especially in DM where characters share similar palette to their surroundings. What needs to happen is on the outside of Outpost the character needs to get alittle darker so that they stand out more in the brightness, the equal opposite to what happens for in the darkness where the ambient light gets brighter to bring the characters brightness vs the scene up abit.

                    It is always to the extreme though, its rare people approach the problem looking for a best middle ground solution at all and this extremism causes people to blindly disregard the dynamics of this feature in regards to gameplay. I also appreciate the game for its art so the less affect this can have on that overall the better, outlines like the Xray mode could work but in all honestly I dont like my enemy being pointed out to me, having the red crosshairs, the outlines, it just seems like pandering.
                    Last edited by MonsOlympus; 03-12-2016, 12:19 AM.
                    Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by «MechikTåj» View Post
                      What if we got rid of team colored skins altogether and instead use the standard DM skins across every gametype? There would be an in-game option in the menus to let players decide which color "outline" and/or "glow" they want for their team mates and which one for their enemies and at what intensities. Green or red or blue might be good for one player, but not for another - colorblind or not.

                      Do it tastefully, of course, so the art people don't freak out; but make it effective so the competitive players don't freak out. I'm thinking something similar to the Enchantment effect on armor in Skyrim (again, with variable intensity). It would work similar to brightskins, but it wouldn't be the actual skin/texture of the character being changed - just an outline throughout the character's details and a variable-at-distance glow. I think this would help preserve the artist's original vision of their character model (i.e., without having to make them wear big, red, plastic-looking shoulder pads), but also be effective in team-based and even non-team based gametypes.
                      Yep, this is what I would want. The end user picks as to whatever they want to see their friend or foes colour.

                      To accomodate this, the onscreen and audio announcement would have to be changed. ie: You couldn't have "Red team has the flag" It'd have to be colour neutral, like "Enemy team has the flag" etc...

                      The biggest people this effects is the spectators who would get confused in a big way if watching multiple people's livestreams. This would mean a restriction on people being able to livestream their screens.

                      Easily fixed by spectators using the in-game watch functionality or watching an "official" broadcast of the match.
                      Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
                        I used the one of the new 4.11 features, lighting channels to do this, the character is not lit by any of the environment lights at all and is lit by acouple of directional lights which only light the characters lighting channel.

                        I honestly have no issues seeing players, I can spot camouflaged players on BF hardcore servers so UT is a cakewalk in comparison. This could make a nice radioactive glow though, I just did it for a laugh, it took me under 18 mins to make the same time as cafes (cropped) video ripping into Chill.
                        I don't have an issue either. I'm wondering if some people have their brightness or gamma up too high?
                        Another crazy idea brought to you by richardboegli ;P

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by richardboegli View Post
                          I don't have an issue either. I'm wondering if some people have their brightness or gamma up too high?
                          It could certainly be a number of things, the industry has been trying to standardize for ages, monitor companies are like no we want the settings and graphics cards companies are like no we want the settings. Even if I take a screenshot here and post it online youre not seeing what I see on my screen, I think my monitor is pretty well tuned being an artist and having a keen eye but its not professionally done, there are settings not only on the monitor hardware, the monitor profile, the graphics card but there are also options in the game for graphics that is alot of places for something to go wrong.

                          I have one monitor I keep on gaming settings all the time because thats what I work on most, its possible some people have bad hardware as well, like its faulty but that isnt something Epic should really be supporting. We should be trying to get peoples settings to a point where the game close to what Epic intended, I have seen people post on the forums before and everything has colour all over it, sometimes they arnt even aware their monitor settings are out until you tell them, for all I know mine could be out and its making players more visible lol


                          I hate to say this but maybe these players just need to get used to it and play more, camouflage and stealth are big parts of other games and if people are using this to their advantage then it should be allowed. Thats not to say I think UT needs to be a stealth shooter and Im actually not a fan of stealth gameplay overall because its usually too slow for me, what I think is people should be allowed to use these skills in UT to compensate for where they might be lacking, not everyone comes from the same old school arena background. Some of us play BF, TF2, etc and have skills we trained in those games and would like to put to some use in UT, since the original UT Ive played it without brightskins as my preference because I like the brutal realism of UT.

                          It was 2k3 that went alittle bit more sports orientated and thats certainly a theme that could be used for a team, like sponsors logos all over em like a race car driver, its not a theme I want to see applied to the entire game. Im not sure if that appeal worked because it ended up going back in the other direction again for 2k4 so I think that in itself proves more than just a competitive vibe is needed for UT to overall succeed, obviously UT3 went abit too far in the other direction again but it was still competitive.
                          Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            This seriously reminds me of Battlefield 3/4 doritos. Personally if forced I'd only prefer teammates to have an indicator.
                            NERV Clan IG/LowG IG. UT Series Veteran (all titles), UED 2/3 Mapper/modder ... UED 4 sooooon.
                            ----------
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                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by «MechikTåj» View Post
                              What if we got rid of team colored skins altogether and instead use the standard DM skins across every gametype? There would be an in-game option in the menus to let players decide which color "outline" and/or "glow" they want for their team mates and which one for their enemies and at what intensities. Green or red or blue might be good for one player, but not for another - colorblind or not.

                              Do it tastefully, of course, so the art people don't freak out; but make it effective so the competitive players don't freak out. I'm thinking something similar to the Enchantment effect on armor in Skyrim (again, with variable intensity). It would work similar to brightskins, but it wouldn't be the actual skin/texture of the character being changed - just an outline throughout the character's details and a variable-at-distance glow. I think this would help preserve the artist's original vision of their character model (i.e., without having to make them wear big, red, plastic-looking shoulder pads), but also be effective in team-based and even non-team based gametypes.

                              Frankly though, as others have said, it's not just the colors on the character models anymore, it's also the character LIGHTING that really needs to be addressed.


                              Excellent points, this should be implemented

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