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One thing I definitely do not want to see possible in the new UT.

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    #61
    i agree with the OP. no picmip. can't scale the graphics back beyond what would be considered "low" quality for online play. if LAN players agree to it, then fine.

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      #62
      I think some of you all are missing a core concept here... like a few other OP's are...

      This is a community developed game.. and is pretty much open source..

      Whether you want things like this included or not is really not up to you. it's up to Epic and anyone with the ability to contribute to these projects.

      You want high res textures, eye candy, and detailed aesthetic maps? Nothing wrong with that. But don't be surprised when all your favorite maps and textures get community made low-res versions of pretty much everything, and everyone gets the ability to make whatever graphical changes they want. Because they have the right to do so.

      The majority of the people who will play the next UT care nothing for leagues, ladders, or anything "competitive" related. To force them into graphical decisions such as texture resolution and THE COLOR OF FREAKING CHARACTER SKINS just because you THINK it gives SOME people a competitive advantage is ridiculous.

      And more than anything it makes absolutely no sense to take OUT basic features and functions of a game/game engine that Epic is trying to show case.
      http://ut99.ytmnd.com

      UT2k4 hairiest *** invitational - 4th place (but voted most aesthetic) (pm for proof)

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        #63
        Originally posted by Saren View Post
        I'm excited for the beauty of the new engine, but I hope they don't fashion it to be partly a tech demo like UT3, which was not well optimized due to this and also that it was somewhat of a console port.
        Looks as if Epic wants to make it right this time. Fact is that this will be a PC game, not a console port (I guess it's a fact) and photo-realism is a big topic with the new engine that Epic likes to display, so I doubt they will mutilate it with over the top blooming and what not effects. The UE4 shooter game demo is a good example of a good and detailed. but clean looking game with only realistic effects related to lighting. I see Epic to generally go that path with UT4, but it's to early to state, so we shall see.

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          #64
          Originally posted by knell View Post
          The majority of the people who will play the next UT care nothing for leagues, ladders, or anything "competitive" related. To force them into graphical decisions such as texture resolution and THE COLOR OF FREAKING CHARACTER SKINS just because you THINK it gives SOME people a competitive advantage is ridiculous.

          And more than anything it makes absolutely no sense to take OUT basic features and functions of a game/game engine that Epic is trying to show case.
          I've seen plenty of competitive tournament matches of UT99 and they were always bare bones default UT99 games without any bright skins and low res textures and it worked just great. The fact that opponents were not glowing across the map can be seen as another competitive challenge, nothing wrong with that. Identifying targets should always be part of game.

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            #65
            Originally posted by knell View Post
            Whether you want things like this included or not is really not up to you. it's up to Epic and anyone with the ability to contribute to these projects.
            We can still contribute to the discussion, in which Epic and said contributors participate and consider the opinions of the community.

            Originally posted by knell View Post
            You want high res textures, eye candy, and detailed aesthetic maps? Nothing wrong with that. But don't be surprised when all your favorite maps and textures get community made low-res versions of pretty much everything, and everyone gets the ability to make whatever graphical changes they want. Because they have the right to do so.
            Yes, but this is about client-side LOD abuse, not maps that are created to be low-res.

            Originally posted by knell View Post
            To force them into graphical decisions such as texture resolution and THE COLOR OF FREAKING CHARACTER SKINS just because you THINK it gives SOME people a competitive advantage is ridiculous.
            Nothing is being forced, unless I missed something. I honestly didn't read every post in this thread. As far as I know, we're discussing what options to include, meaning they are configurable.

            Originally posted by knell View Post
            And more than anything it makes absolutely no sense to take OUT basic features and functions of a game/game engine that Epic is trying to show case.
            Which basic features are being removed? Picmip and brightskins and hitsounds were not default/basic features in previous UTs. (Were they?)

            Originally posted by Psychomorph View Post
            The UE4 shooter game demo is a good example of a good and detailed. but clean looking game with only realistic effects related to lighting. I see Epic to generally go that path with UT4, but it's to early to state, so we shall see.
            Nice!

            Comment


              #66
              Originally posted by Saren View Post
              We can still contribute to the discussion, in which Epic and said contributors participate and consider the opinions of the community.


              Yes, but this is about client-side LOD abuse, not maps that are created to be low-res.


              Nothing is being forced, unless I missed something. I honestly didn't read every post in this thread. As far as I know, we're discussing what options to include, meaning they are configurable.


              Which basic features are being removed? Picmip and brightskins and hitsounds were not default/basic features in previous UTs. (Were they?)


              Nice!
              I dont consider ridiculously long rants "contributing"

              The vast majority of this thread has had nothing to do with LOD. Please reread OP's first post.

              Not letting people dictate what their game looks like IS forcing them.

              I don't know about picmip but brightskins have pretty much been standard since ut2k4... but I'd also consider the insane amount of customization options EVERY UT has had, the games and engines BEST features.

              edit: also have you all completely forgotten about linux support? If you're not going to give the game a lot of scalability why even support linux
              http://ut99.ytmnd.com

              UT2k4 hairiest *** invitational - 4th place (but voted most aesthetic) (pm for proof)

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by Dark Pulse View Post
                No, it just had fairly steep requirements at its time because we were looking at the jump from single-core CPUs to dualcore CPUs to run UT3 well. Once you got a dualcore, the game ran just fine (as shown by my rig at the time):

                So... sorry, I don't buy your argument at all. UE3 played horrible if you had **** hardware (and believe me, I tried running Roboblitz on my Athlon XP 3000+ and GeForce 6800 GT). It played fine if you had anything decent.

                So yes, I want the game to enforce a minimum set of detail beyond which it is literally impossible to go, or for it to have those settings locked if some sort of "competitive mode" checkbox or something isn't ticked, so that I don't have someone who thinks he's hot stuff easily able to pick me out because he could crank the textures down to basically nonexistence, even if "I could do it too." Cheese is cheese.
                As long as the graphics settings from ultra-low to ultra-high don't physically change the level/hitboxes/sound in any advantageous way, I say go for it.

                Slightly older games/engines, and/or more optimized engines(UE4 is highly optimized, UE3 is NOT) could pump out 400+fps on a good PC not long after the game's release. UE3(UT3) looks and runs like ****, as an end-result game not very different looking from previous games that ran much better(like Quake 4, Cube 2, Far Cry). UE4 is what UE3 should've been like.

                StarCraft 2 is another example of a clearly unoptimized game/engine, which is even newer than UE3, I think. idtech5, on the other hand, looks pretty amazing(true "next-gen"), *and* plays very well(except for that whole MegaTexture thing... ).
                Last edited by CT007; 05-17-2014, 08:25 PM.

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                  #68
                  Originally posted by CT007 View Post
                  As long as the graphics settings from ultra-low to ultra-high don't physically change the level/hitboxes/sound in any advantageous way, I say go for it.

                  this ^

                  dont build levels like its a freaking disco at night in the jungle during a full moon and i think we'll all be ok.

                  /thread
                  http://ut99.ytmnd.com

                  UT2k4 hairiest *** invitational - 4th place (but voted most aesthetic) (pm for proof)

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Looks like someone has WAAAAY too much time on their hands...

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by knell View Post
                      I dont consider ridiculously long rants "contributing"

                      The vast majority of this thread has had nothing to do with LOD. Please reread OP's first post.

                      Not letting people dictate what their game looks like IS forcing them.

                      I don't know about picmip but brightskins have pretty much been standard since ut2k4... but I'd also consider the insane amount of customization options EVERY UT has had, the games and engines BEST features.

                      edit: also have you all completely forgotten about linux support? If you're not going to give the game a lot of scalability why even support linux
                      Not every post has been long rants. There is some good discussion going on here amongst the more pointless posts. LOD means level of detail, and LOD size is the value that controls the level of "picmipping", as displayed by a picture and described by text in OP's first post. Also, players can still dictate what their games look like. Dark Pulse is merely considering possible limitations with the level of detail and, really, a continuance of letting brightskins and hitsounds be custom mutators as opposed to default. If I remember correctly, none of the UTs made brightskins default. Brightskins and hitsounds were provided by mutators like UT Comp.
                      Last edited by Saren; 05-17-2014, 09:35 PM.

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by Saren
                        Not every post has been long rants. There is some good discussion going on here. LOD means level of detail, and LOD size is the value that controls the level of "picmipping", as displayed by a picture and described by text in OP's first post. Also, players can still dictate what their game looks like. Dark Pulse is merely considering possible limitations with the level of detail and, really, a continuance of letting brightskins and hitsounds be custom mutators as opposed to default. As for brightskins, were they standard in UT2004? If I remember correctly, none of the UTs made brightskins default. Brightskins and hitsounds were provided by mutators like UT Comp. I don't know what you're saying about Linux. As for the game, there are more graphical options than picmip and brightskins and hitsounds (which themselves are scalable options), and those options are presumably scalable as well.
                        Originally posted by Dark Pulse View Post
                        Seriously, I don't have a problem with competitive play... I really don't. But I mean... how many assists do you need? You already have brightskins. You already have hitsounds. And yet, with both of those aids, some players STILL feel the need to do this sort of ****? What's the whole point of textures if they can just be turned down at will? I know every top-level player doesn't do this, but good god, no one should have to do this! If you need to do stuff like this to feel like you're good at a game, you got some other issues, and should consider getting yourself to a hospital.
                        When this is the basis of the argument, to me everything else said is invalid. Yeah I understand what he's saying. But if someone wants to play like that, why not let them? It makes absolutely no sense to make something so mundane into such a big deal. The ability to make your game look like garbage so you can play your game how you want is not new. I've been playing UT2k4 since 2005 and I've never ever heard of anyone claiming lowering the graphics is the reason why they play well. I didn't even know this was a thing until this thread was made.

                        Are all the people who favor console going to buy/upgrade a PC just to play UT? Most likely not. Sooo... make it playable on crappy computers. Making the "LOD" as adjustable in the next UT as it has always been in the past makes a lot of sense.

                        My point with Linux/Mac/OSX is that there are a lot of people who don't have Windows that have enjoyed UT99/UT2k4... but the UT3 port didn't happen because UT3 died to fast. If you build the game with your entire player base in mind... you may not have these issues.

                        aaaaand, in UT2k4 at least the hitsounds and character models/brightskins etc were ALL optional. UT2k4 had built in bright skins, but the UT Comp/3spn brightskins took over. Although, you could actually come close to emulating UT Comp brightskins with a few .ini edits... Hitsounds were not default but like I said, are optional on every server.
                        http://ut99.ytmnd.com

                        UT2k4 hairiest *** invitational - 4th place (but voted most aesthetic) (pm for proof)

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by Saren View Post
                          I don't know. Why is it disallowed? Which leagues don't allow this? In Quake Live tournaments at Quake Con itself, they're fine with players using picmip and brightskins and hitsounds. 120 fps minimum is the standard for pro Quake players now due to the prevalence of 120 Hz monitors, and the fact that not having picmip can often produce dips in framerate that can literally cause a player to miss a shot.
                          in UT3 when i won the MLUT for it we had brightskins and we all had to tweak our ini's to make the game playable. just my 4cents.

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by Hab1b1 View Post
                            in UT3 when i won the MLUT for it we had brightskins and we all had to tweak our ini's to make the game playable. just my 4cents.
                            ^ this. Just make it built in and optional...

                            would this face lie to you?

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                            http://ut99.ytmnd.com

                            UT2k4 hairiest *** invitational - 4th place (but voted most aesthetic) (pm for proof)

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                              #74
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                              moving on...

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                                #75
                                Let the player do whatever they would like with their game. That appeals to every crowd because everyone can play the game however they want. Competitive or not, let the player decide their own settings. Through the game and through the ini. Customization is the beauty of PC gaming after all, and that's especially been showcased in UT.

                                Dark Pulse, you state that if competitive players can beat anyone with or without the tweaks, why would it matter? I mean...it certainly does, but that's besides the point. Just that, on the flip side of that, if you're playing the game casually, why does it matter to you what people do to their game in a casual (or even competitive) match? In more cases than not (to say the least)...with those you play with/against..you have no clue who has done what to their settings, especially if your focus is only on fun casualness rather than something with more depth to it. Just play the game however you want to with whatever settings you want, while letting others do what they want.

                                And my personal stance? I will be that guy to tweak it as much as possible to make the game as smooth and simplified as possible; making player-performance as strong as possible with the assistance of a tweaked ini. I also look to be as competitive as possible in this next UT (Not enough "as possible"'s, I know). On top of that, I have a "special", personal case that will most likely not allow me to upgrade my old, low/mid-end computer (I mean...I can get like 120+ FPS on UT2K4 with a completely tweaked ini and handle modern games on lowest settings/tweaks "finely", so it's okay) to be able to handle UT4 in anything but (hopefully) creamy, lego-land. Even if I did have a powerful PC to handle anything UT4 were to throw at me, I would prefer the same settings because that's how ->I<- enjoy the game and have fun. But guess what? That's me. I prefer bareness for competitive play and for casual play. I am me and you are you. You prefer high(er) settings for your own enjoyment and fun in your play. The best way to appeal to both our spectrums and anyone's "special cases" is by allowing complete customization to fit both ends, and even fit for those weird outliers like me.

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