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  • #31
    I agree with most posts but I feel a lot of people here aren't really fully aware of what a project of an extremely small pool of devs and pre-alpha means. A lot of the changes you want to see now will come, but they may come later, probably half-year+ or whatever is when possibly gameplay related changes might become more common. It's still in the phase of new structures and skeletons to the project being added, the resources is only so large really. The only gameplay focusing guy they have is Steve Polge pretty much which is also busy with other stuff (besides busy with real life I suppose with a newborn kid to his addition).

    They definitely would need to improve the communication somehow though as it is now, the community effort is wasted as the community communication is single-sided 95% of the time, the community is trying to reach the devs but aren't successful, that in return creates a lot of wasted enthusiasm among the community to work on various stuff that would be much more interesting when you'd have the devs noticing your work. The communication alone requires more time no doubt but if they cannot do it with the current resources they should hire at least one guy with the sole purpose to try communicate between the community and the dev staff.

    The communication has only gotten worse with time too, it was "decent" once upon a time but now it's almost non-existant.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by raxxy View Post
      ...
      What raxxy said!

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      • #33
        As an example of the feedback between community and developers, can say about bans of good people and artists. An example - Tidal Blast. It seems that Epic Games has a huge staff of talented people, therefore are willing to just as easily shrug off the rest of artists.

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        • #34
          Its clear Tidal Blast was being purposefully destructive, many people have been though and been let off, we all have our moments when it all just boils over, we are all only human after all. Im sure it even happens at Epic, we just dont see it and thats part of my issue with it all. I want to see more, its not transparent, we see none of the design talk, none of the concepts on the napkins, none of the real development, the only development we get involved in its started by the community for the community and Epic barely even factors into it.

          As I said on IRC I dont think Ive ever seen a discussion between two Epic people on this forum, if there is its only a comment in passing not an actual discussion like the community has, even when Epic get involved in conversations its very targeted most of the time and not alot of text. I dont expect Epic to flood the forum with walls of text but the odd post from Steve might be the go you know, its like he purposefully avoids the community and I have never seen anyone attack him on these forums at all so Id like to call him out abit on that. He came from the mod community sure but I dont know what he has against us, maybe Steve is huge on PMs but I dont think so because they are disabled, next guess is mailing list only which I suppose I could use but I dont want a convo behind closed doors, why cant the community hear it all?

          Right now it feels more like a two way mirror Epic can see us but we cant see them. No different to being a beta tester on any other game really.


          This really does upset me because I was hoping to use UT as a stepping stone for my own development, to get some experience with real developers (there are some in the community thankfully) to take the step into becoming a more professional developer, thats the impression I got from Epic with their talk on "many from Epic came from the mod community" but thats not how I see it playing out at all, already professional developers are clearly favoured and/or taking the lead and doesnt leave alot of room for those of us looking to climb the ladder.
          Last edited by MonsOlympus; 05-17-2016, 11:26 PM.
          Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
            Its clear Tidal Blast was being purposefully destructive, many people have been though and been let off, we all have our moments when it all just boils over, we are all only human after all. Im sure it even happens at Epic, we just dont see it and thats part of my issue with it all. I want to see more, its not transparent, we see none of the design talk, none of the concepts on the napkins, none of the real development, the only development we get involved in its started by the community for the community and Epic barely even factors into it.
            Purposefully destructive? Out of curiosity, did you take a look at his actual posts and threads?

            Tidal Blast
            Latest threads created

            • [TUTORIAL] Modeling game assets in Modo
            • Mythbuster: Motivation and talent
            • How do you feel about the UT Marketplace and revenue split between Epic and modders?
            • A strong UT modding community with a strong education
            • Poll: Survey: What 3D applications do you use or have access to?
            • [Proposal] Customizable set of modular assets, textures and themes
            • [Request] Quake 3 mouse movements
            • How to import game asset from Modo to Unreal Engine 4
            • Request: Sub-Forums for Mods
            • Unreal (1998) - Remake
            • [PROTOTYPE] Blueprint - Dodge
            • Proposal: Make the killtime of all weapons longer to help us balance the weapons
            • Game development tutorials and information: Make your requests!
            • The UT DNA - Bible (Community Effort)
            • Poll: Tidal Blast's Game Concepts
            • Long term strategy, crossplatform play, UT Universe, marketing, marketplace...
            • UT(2014) - In-Game Weapon Editor
            • Etc.
            Latest posts

            This free tutorial was designed as a roadmap for aspiring game artists who wants to learn how to model game assets in a 3D application such as Modo.

            Modeling game assets in Modo v1.00
            Download....
            Love your work man. Good job so far. Can't wait to see where this is going.
            Skillfully written Wail, love it.
            I'm not worried about UT4. I love Epic, love this game and love this community. This game will be fun, it's my type of game, no doubts about that. But at the end of the day, even if UT is vastly...
            Well if you can, use the one you love most. 3D takes time, it's important to enjoy the journey and every second of it.
            Hello Pete,
            Glad to see you around. However, what you just wrote isn't accurate and shows that you do not really understand how things are for us as contributors, but I will try to better...
            Thank you Jim!

            On a side note, I would like to point out that many artists from the UT community might not have access to Zbrush 4R7 for one reason or another. Zbrush has been the lead software...
            You could unwrap you mesh in chunks and take advantage or tri-planar projections, 3D painting and projecting photos (Mari, Substance Painter, Modo, etc.) on your mesh in 3D.
            Thank you for the PM, I'll try to help, but I haven't used 3DS Max in a long time.

            Generally, you need to create both a high poly model (can have infinite number of vertices or triangles or quads...
            Make sure that 3ds max is setup properly to work with the scale of UE4 and 10x10 grid. You can use brushes in UE4 to create a layout and test scale. Export that and import into 3DS Max to then create...
            I know Josh and I thank you for that. I didn't take your post the wrong way or anything like. And it wasn't about you. I'm just pointing out that I signed up for an iterative process that didn't take...
            Hi everyone,
            It's just to inform you that I left the Unreal Remake team for family-related reasons and that the other members of the core team are now in charge of the project. My mission was...
            If anything, it's clear that he spent a great deal of time and effort giving feedback, helping out and posting various threads to keep the forums alive and active. Serious threads, requests, surveys, tips and tricks and even tutorials. His game concept thread is quite massive. His 70 pages long tutorial is probably the biggest I've found yet on the forums. He made game character concepts directly in 3D. Worked on the Enforcer, Unreal Remake, he fixed the Single Tap Dodge in Blueprint that is still broken today in the latest build and who knows what else he did. And they banned him for expressing his feelings about the lack of communication on the project between the devs and the community, trying to make things more pleasant for contributors? It's super difficult to build a community. Even more difficult to find people who are willing to contribute. And even more difficult to find people willing to contribute half as much as he did. And if I get it right, they even banned him twice?

            This can't be serious. So brutal...

            Last edited by BrutalSector; 05-18-2016, 01:21 AM.

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            • #36
              Seriously man, you really should stop creating new accounts to come to your own defense, kinda sad really.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by RPGWiZ4RD View Post
                I agree with most posts but I feel a lot of people here aren't really fully aware of what a project of an extremely small pool of devs and pre-alpha means. A lot of the changes you want to see now will come, but they may come later, probably half-year+ or whatever is when possibly gameplay related changes might become more common. It's still in the phase of new structures and skeletons to the project being added, the resources is only so large really. The only gameplay focusing guy they have is Steve Polge pretty much which is also busy with other stuff (besides busy with real life I suppose with a newborn kid to his addition).
                After observing a two-year game development cycle, I'd say it's finally time to put the "we're a small team" development card to rest. Most of the complaints are revolved around core networking and gameplay decisions that have hampered UT over the last year and don't just reflect the Unreal Tournament but also the foundations built around UE4. I hope Overwatch can help guide the Unreal Engine netcode in the future.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by BrutalSector View Post
                  Purposefully destructive? Out of curiosity, did you take a look at his actual posts and threads?
                  Yes I know you purposefully snobbed one of my threads, I saw it for myself and I saw your behavoir on IRC, we all have rants but there is only 1 person who is a broken record and continually attacking Chris Perna.
                  Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    rockets/flakball not registering
                    85+ clans/teams/guilds

                    #1 Assault
                    #1 ONS
                    #1 vCTF

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Bubbaxm2 View Post
                      Seriously man, you really should stop creating new accounts to come to your own defense, kinda sad really.
                      My post was strictly informative/educative. But I appreciate that you took the time to share your thoughts with the rest of us. Communication is key to success afterall.

                      Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
                      Yes I know you purposefully snobbed one of my threads, I saw it for myself and I saw your behavoir on IRC, we all have rants but there is only 1 person who is a broken record and continually attacking Chris Perna.
                      To claim that someone has been for the most part absent from the forums which can be an issue for team communication when the person is in a lead position is not an attack, it's a fact.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by BrutalSector View Post
                        To claim that someone has been for the most part absent from the forums which can be an issue for team communication when the person is in a lead position is not an attack, it's a fact.
                        I know Ive written the very same thing here havent I? Thats your issue, you just respond and dont read, its too volatile and reactive. What I havent done is insult anyone (at Epic) or made it personal, you clearly upset someone enough to be banned twice and have had multiple posts completely censored.

                        This thread isnt about you though, neither was my post so Id thank you to take it back ontopic or I will report for derailing.
                        Last edited by MonsOlympus; 05-18-2016, 02:25 AM.
                        Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Quadj130 View Post
                          After observing a two-year game development cycle, I'd say it's finally time to put the "we're a small team" development card to rest. Most of the complaints are revolved around core networking and gameplay decisions that have hampered UT over the last year and don't just reflect the Unreal Tournament but also the foundations built around UE4. I hope Overwatch can help guide the Unreal Engine netcode in the future.
                          To some extent I think Epic thinks this is how pre-alphas should be done.
                          I.e. The party system. Let's concede a competitive game needs one. Granted that no one (in the community) asked for it and no one wanted it. The competitive players just want to talk about nerfing the flak cannon. But it's still needed. Just like everything else that's needed but that no one asked for or wanted, it got implemented anyway, and in a rudimentary form, potentially to be polished later during the real alpha stage.

                          Maybe implementing a whole bunch of barely functional systems is not too terrible an idea for a PRE-ALPHA. It just doesn't work very well with a community that wants to be involved, because it seems to lock out 99% of the community from being involved, and Epic hasn't spared any time to emphasize this... and even goes as far as throwing in occasional breadcrumbs, like balance changes and scale changes, that mislead the community into treating it like a beta.

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                          • #43
                            [MENTION=526]Dementiurge[/MENTION], I dont think its a good idea to build barely functional systems without some kind of plan, if there is some kind of plan why wernt we involved in some manner so we can atleast understand Epics perspective? I really dont feel as though this is how professional level development works everywhere, no plan and just implementing systems on the go just sounds destined to failure, there must be plans, I hope there are plans D:

                            I get it though you build something quickly move onto the next thing and leave bugs but thats not whats happening either, look at the crosshairs, half-arsed plan and they are remaking the system 5 times over just to give us a basic HUD that wont even be very moddable or customizable.


                            Just to reiterate, Im not suggesting the game development halt to undergo a lengthy planning process just that planning saves rework, rework is where those hidden costs are, where those nasty bugs are hiding, where the time is wasted. Epic seems to be doing alot of rework.
                            Last edited by MonsOlympus; 05-18-2016, 02:40 AM.
                            Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
                              if there is some kind of plan why wernt we involved in some manner so we can atleast understand Epics perspective?
                              Well, we did have a Trello... *laughter*

                              Anyway, the crosshair can probably be explained. But I can't explain why they care about minor bug reports knowing something's probably going to be rebuilt anyway... Maybe they don't and they're just humoring us. :P

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I have no doubts it can be explained but thats not really what Id like to see, Id like Epic to set the example they want from the community. I have seen them tell TidalBlast of all people he was all over the place but when you look at their development from the outside it looks like Epic is even worse constantly jumping from UI to HUD to movement to input with no focus on any of them in particular leaving parts of the game consistently broken. Obviously some systems need to work in tandem so there will be times when you need to jump around abit but I dont know why there is so much focus on the crosshair, its draining limited resources from important things, I know the community called for it but as I said Epic needs to take the lead and not let the community boss them around.

                                How come all the custom crosshair people didnt get the "its prealpha" rant and ignored? I get they like it and its important to them but we could have gone the entire way through development happily without anything more than a simple crosshair. Now we have resources being wasted on bouncey hex widgets that Im going to disable anyway.

                                Im gonna be alittle harsh, what good is a crosshair if you cant hit whats directly under it anyway *mic drop*
                                Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

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