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  • #31
    I agree with most posts but I feel a lot of people here aren't really fully aware of what a project of an extremely small pool of devs and pre-alpha means. A lot of the changes you want to see now will come, but they may come later, probably half-year+ or whatever is when possibly gameplay related changes might become more common. It's still in the phase of new structures and skeletons to the project being added, the resources is only so large really. The only gameplay focusing guy they have is Steve Polge pretty much which is also busy with other stuff (besides busy with real life I suppose with a newborn kid to his addition).

    They definitely would need to improve the communication somehow though as it is now, the community effort is wasted as the community communication is single-sided 95% of the time, the community is trying to reach the devs but aren't successful, that in return creates a lot of wasted enthusiasm among the community to work on various stuff that would be much more interesting when you'd have the devs noticing your work. The communication alone requires more time no doubt but if they cannot do it with the current resources they should hire at least one guy with the sole purpose to try communicate between the community and the dev staff.

    The communication has only gotten worse with time too, it was "decent" once upon a time but now it's almost non-existant.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by raxxy View Post
      ...
      What raxxy said!

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      • #33
        As an example of the feedback between community and developers, can say about bans of good people and artists. An example - Tidal Blast. It seems that Epic Games has a huge staff of talented people, therefore are willing to just as easily shrug off the rest of artists.

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        • #34
          Its clear Tidal Blast was being purposefully destructive, many people have been though and been let off, we all have our moments when it all just boils over, we are all only human after all. Im sure it even happens at Epic, we just dont see it and thats part of my issue with it all. I want to see more, its not transparent, we see none of the design talk, none of the concepts on the napkins, none of the real development, the only development we get involved in its started by the community for the community and Epic barely even factors into it.

          As I said on IRC I dont think Ive ever seen a discussion between two Epic people on this forum, if there is its only a comment in passing not an actual discussion like the community has, even when Epic get involved in conversations its very targeted most of the time and not alot of text. I dont expect Epic to flood the forum with walls of text but the odd post from Steve might be the go you know, its like he purposefully avoids the community and I have never seen anyone attack him on these forums at all so Id like to call him out abit on that. He came from the mod community sure but I dont know what he has against us, maybe Steve is huge on PMs but I dont think so because they are disabled, next guess is mailing list only which I suppose I could use but I dont want a convo behind closed doors, why cant the community hear it all?

          Right now it feels more like a two way mirror Epic can see us but we cant see them. No different to being a beta tester on any other game really.


          This really does upset me because I was hoping to use UT as a stepping stone for my own development, to get some experience with real developers (there are some in the community thankfully) to take the step into becoming a more professional developer, thats the impression I got from Epic with their talk on "many from Epic came from the mod community" but thats not how I see it playing out at all, already professional developers are clearly favoured and/or taking the lead and doesnt leave alot of room for those of us looking to climb the ladder.
          Last edited by MonsOlympus; 05-17-2016, 11:26 PM.
          Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

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          • #35
            Seriously man, you really should stop creating new accounts to come to your own defense, kinda sad really.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by RPGWiZ4RD View Post
              I agree with most posts but I feel a lot of people here aren't really fully aware of what a project of an extremely small pool of devs and pre-alpha means. A lot of the changes you want to see now will come, but they may come later, probably half-year+ or whatever is when possibly gameplay related changes might become more common. It's still in the phase of new structures and skeletons to the project being added, the resources is only so large really. The only gameplay focusing guy they have is Steve Polge pretty much which is also busy with other stuff (besides busy with real life I suppose with a newborn kid to his addition).
              After observing a two-year game development cycle, I'd say it's finally time to put the "we're a small team" development card to rest. Most of the complaints are revolved around core networking and gameplay decisions that have hampered UT over the last year and don't just reflect the Unreal Tournament but also the foundations built around UE4. I hope Overwatch can help guide the Unreal Engine netcode in the future.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by BrutalSector
                Purposefully destructive? Out of curiosity, did you take a look at his actual posts and threads?
                Yes I know you purposefully snobbed one of my threads, I saw it for myself and I saw your behavoir on IRC, we all have rants but there is only 1 person who is a broken record and continually attacking Chris Perna.
                Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

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                • #38
                  rockets/flakball not registering
                  85+ clans/teams/guilds

                  #1 Assault
                  #1 ONS
                  #1 vCTF

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Bubbaxm2 View Post
                    Seriously man, you really should stop creating new accounts to come to your own defense, kinda sad really.
                    My post was strictly informative/educative. But I appreciate that you took the time to share your thoughts with the rest of us. Communication is key to success afterall.

                    Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
                    Yes I know you purposefully snobbed one of my threads, I saw it for myself and I saw your behavoir on IRC, we all have rants but there is only 1 person who is a broken record and continually attacking Chris Perna.
                    To claim that someone has been for the most part absent from the forums which can be an issue for team communication when the person is in a lead position is not an attack, it's a fact.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by BrutalSector View Post
                      To claim that someone has been for the most part absent from the forums which can be an issue for team communication when the person is in a lead position is not an attack, it's a fact.
                      I know Ive written the very same thing here havent I? Thats your issue, you just respond and dont read, its too volatile and reactive. What I havent done is insult anyone (at Epic) or made it personal, you clearly upset someone enough to be banned twice and have had multiple posts completely censored.

                      This thread isnt about you though, neither was my post so Id thank you to take it back ontopic or I will report for derailing.
                      Last edited by MonsOlympus; 05-18-2016, 02:25 AM.
                      Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Quadj130 View Post
                        After observing a two-year game development cycle, I'd say it's finally time to put the "we're a small team" development card to rest. Most of the complaints are revolved around core networking and gameplay decisions that have hampered UT over the last year and don't just reflect the Unreal Tournament but also the foundations built around UE4. I hope Overwatch can help guide the Unreal Engine netcode in the future.
                        To some extent I think Epic thinks this is how pre-alphas should be done.
                        I.e. The party system. Let's concede a competitive game needs one. Granted that no one (in the community) asked for it and no one wanted it. The competitive players just want to talk about nerfing the flak cannon. But it's still needed. Just like everything else that's needed but that no one asked for or wanted, it got implemented anyway, and in a rudimentary form, potentially to be polished later during the real alpha stage.

                        Maybe implementing a whole bunch of barely functional systems is not too terrible an idea for a PRE-ALPHA. It just doesn't work very well with a community that wants to be involved, because it seems to lock out 99% of the community from being involved, and Epic hasn't spared any time to emphasize this... and even goes as far as throwing in occasional breadcrumbs, like balance changes and scale changes, that mislead the community into treating it like a beta.

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                        • #42
                          [MENTION=526]Dementiurge[/MENTION], I dont think its a good idea to build barely functional systems without some kind of plan, if there is some kind of plan why wernt we involved in some manner so we can atleast understand Epics perspective? I really dont feel as though this is how professional level development works everywhere, no plan and just implementing systems on the go just sounds destined to failure, there must be plans, I hope there are plans D:

                          I get it though you build something quickly move onto the next thing and leave bugs but thats not whats happening either, look at the crosshairs, half-arsed plan and they are remaking the system 5 times over just to give us a basic HUD that wont even be very moddable or customizable.


                          Just to reiterate, Im not suggesting the game development halt to undergo a lengthy planning process just that planning saves rework, rework is where those hidden costs are, where those nasty bugs are hiding, where the time is wasted. Epic seems to be doing alot of rework.
                          Last edited by MonsOlympus; 05-18-2016, 02:40 AM.
                          Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
                            if there is some kind of plan why wernt we involved in some manner so we can atleast understand Epics perspective?
                            Well, we did have a Trello... *laughter*

                            Anyway, the crosshair can probably be explained. But I can't explain why they care about minor bug reports knowing something's probably going to be rebuilt anyway... Maybe they don't and they're just humoring us. :P

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                            • #44
                              I have no doubts it can be explained but thats not really what Id like to see, Id like Epic to set the example they want from the community. I have seen them tell TidalBlast of all people he was all over the place but when you look at their development from the outside it looks like Epic is even worse constantly jumping from UI to HUD to movement to input with no focus on any of them in particular leaving parts of the game consistently broken. Obviously some systems need to work in tandem so there will be times when you need to jump around abit but I dont know why there is so much focus on the crosshair, its draining limited resources from important things, I know the community called for it but as I said Epic needs to take the lead and not let the community boss them around.

                              How come all the custom crosshair people didnt get the "its prealpha" rant and ignored? I get they like it and its important to them but we could have gone the entire way through development happily without anything more than a simple crosshair. Now we have resources being wasted on bouncey hex widgets that Im going to disable anyway.

                              Im gonna be alittle harsh, what good is a crosshair if you cant hit whats directly under it anyway *mic drop*
                              Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Epic Games never provided a clear roadmap for this project, we don't even know if they know themselves where they are going with it. We don't know what is left to be added, etc. Maybe it would be best to take a back seat until they reach Alpha stage and relax.

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