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Arena shooters have been replaced by hero shooters.

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    #16
    Originally posted by Masur View Post
    A lot of people have a long list of games they want to play and wish they had 10, 20 or 40 hours to pour into one of those but only have 15 minutes here and 30 minutes there to spend on games. They don't have time to research character builds and counters or worse grind through progression. With a good selection of casual and in some cases crazy game types and mutators UT would be a solid choice when you want to be a hardcore gamer even though it's only for 15 minutes and in a ridiculously rusty skill bracket.

    A similar use case UT can also be strong in is when you want to play a wild action game with friends but it must be one they don't have to study or grind first. Both of these use cases rely mainly on fun stuff that can be added on top of a well made highly competitive game type.

    Hero shooters do raise the bar though. For example old school movement and animations are no longer good enough to attract players, the movement has to be both more impressive and more fluid than in hero shooters.
    Sorry but Epic doesnt care about the person who plays for 15 minutes a day and jumps off and rightfully so. You arent playing the game enough to support the population in a meaningful way, you probably wont be spending much money on cosmetics or other items. Sure the past UTs might have been fine for that, but not UT4. They need to retain players who play for hours on end and are willing to spend money and invest heavily into the game and the best way to do that is with character progression. Sure it might not be the best for you, but you arent the demographic Epic should be targeting. They would be extremely foolish to target the 30+ crowd which is nearly everyone who was heavy into UT99 and UT2K4. We are all too old, dont have the time or energy anymore to put into the game like when we were 16-25.

    Epic trying to make the older crowd of UT players happy is like Ferrari trying to make the Lincoln/Buick crowd happy, what we want is not whats popular anymore. Younger players want progression, they want to watch UT videos on how to build the best character and how to best play that character on specific levels and game types. The amount of time and effort people put into Starcraft 2, LoL, Dota and other games like that just researching the best tactics is incredible, its something they enjoy doing and learning. If Arena shooters were popular, games like Toxxik, Reflex and even this UT would not be as dead as they are. There are tons of pre-alpha/alpha games that are in far worse shape than UT4 but still manage a much larger player base.
    PayBack

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      #17
      Might be foolish if they intended to make a ton of money, but they don't. As stated way back, marketplace is no more than a means to allow the game to be self sustained and for contributors to make money for the work they do.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Smurgl View Post
        By the time UT4 is released, it will have gone full circle back to Arena shooters again
        ^^^^^^^this

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          #19
          Originally posted by PayBack View Post
          Ive been saying this for years, the game just needs a character development system. A way for players to customize character movement and abilities to their play style. A simple point system where meeting certain goals within the game gives you ability points to increase a players stats. Something like all players start out with 50 out of a possible 100 stat points. They can use the first 50 anywhere they like to improve the run speed, dodge speed, accuracy, jump height, starting health, starting armor and so on stats. Then they earn points that can be directed at specific play styles. Say for every 100 flag caps, you get 5 points that can be used for run speed, dodge speed or jump height. You return 200 flags you get 5 points that can be used for starting health, starting armor, accuracy and so on. This way players feel connected to their characters, the character they play with is 100% unique to them and tailored to that persons play style and interests. once you have reached 100 points, its no longer possible to upgrade the character any further. Players can have multiple characters so they can switch out characters depending on the game type and position they are playing.

          Unfortunately I dont see Epic ever doing this. They barely have the man power to make a basic AFPS game, no way they would ever be able to tackle something like this. I also dont think they have any interest in doing so. But I can dream...
          worst idea ever. devs please dont listen to this.

          best thing about UT and Quake games is that everyone is equal - everyone has the same stats
          skill is what separates good players from bad ones - this just means good players (or players who play a lot more games than anyone else) will be faster, will be more accurate, jump higher and have more hp and armor then the rest
          how is that fair?

          awful idea.
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            #20
            Might have to go throw up after reading that payback.
            :|

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              #21
              Originally posted by Flikswich View Post
              Might have to go throw up after reading that payback.
              ^ 10 chars

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                #22
                Originally posted by Flikswich View Post
                Might have to go throw up after reading that payback.
                My work here is done!
                PayBack

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                  #23
                  Yeah PayBack thats a pretty horrible idea and will ruin everything good about UT gameplay.

                  I really believe its ALL about marketing and how you hype the game. And Epic has really poor marketing mostly because they never team up with huge publishers like these other big FPS have.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by nvz View Post
                    They may as well. They already lost 95 percent of their fan base. You could gain half of it back by doing something cool with the characters and adding abilities. As long as you have a non hero mode I'm cool with it. It might be time for change. Add heros with the arena shooter formula.
                    Basically this. What difference does it make now?
                    HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
                    BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

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                      #25
                      Yeah but 72.6% of that 95% still come back daily to remind us that 82.3% of the 95% won't be coming back even if they get 100% of what they want. Still going to be tough to sell something new though, with pugs being down 98.3%, weapon balance being off by 68.2% and only 43% of the maps being finished. But hey, the sale of tissues is up by 94%!

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                        #26
                        heroes are gay

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                          #27
                          Drawing flies. This thread needs to be buried.
                          My Unreal game collection. Unreal series screenshots (2560x1440)

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by Bubbaxm2 View Post
                            Yeah but 72.6% of that 95% still come back daily to remind us that 82.3% of the 95% won't be coming back even if they get 100% of what they want. Still going to be tough to sell something new though, with pugs being down 98.3%, weapon balance being off by 68.2% and only 43% of the maps being finished. But hey, the sale of tissues is up by 94%!
                            Best post in this thread.


                            [MENTION=7532]Carbon[/MENTION]
                            Yeah ...where is the shovel?
                            ,,|,.............................................................................................coffee addicted !!!

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by Bubbaxm2 View Post
                              Yeah but 72.6% of that 95% still come back daily to remind us that 82.3% of the 95% won't be coming back even if they get 100% of what they want. Still going to be tough to sell something new though, with pugs being down 98.3%, weapon balance being off by 68.2% and only 43% of the maps being finished. But hey, the sale of tissues is up by 94%!
                              The forums are far too dead for these statistics to be accurate. Lies, **** lies, statistics.
                              HABOUJI! Ouboudah! Batai d'va!
                              BeyondUnreal - Liandri Archives [An extensive repository of Unreal lore.] - Join us on IRC [irc.utchat.com - #beyondunreal]

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                                #30
                                lol @Bubbaxm2

                                I dunno, coming into this game as a UT4 original and unbiased by the history of UT... I think this is the best FPS I've ever played. Most of the time when I lose, I know its my own fault and not due to class mismatches or gadget uses or who can camp longer or persistent weird lag or questionable players etc. The bad news is that there are some insanely strong players in this game and with the small community, new more casual players feel pretty overwhelmed coming across 16+ year veteran players. I've seen a couple times where some media coverage caused a player surge and they were quickly driven right back out of the game by strong players.

                                Even as a natural gamer I must say it was hard to become competitive in UT against such stiff competition and being able to really enjoy it. The worst thing about it is it's such a deceptively simple game. However, I am a competitive person and I will study games I play and strive to get better. A lot of player will just call it quits. At least there are locked games now for newbies, but it still must feel impossible when they step out into open games.

                                It seems like Epic is having trouble appeasing their faithful veteran fanbase who want a strictly competitive game and also draw the casual crowd at large. I think if the game remains uber competitive then a surge of players is needed when the game is more presentable to really fill the ranks. Lately it seems like they are ignoring the veteran crowd and basing decisions off a more casual QA team though. I dunno how I feel about the future of this game, but I still enjoy it a lot.
                                AKA ||Ransom from Absolute clan.
                                I have a WIP map. DM-Mosnar on Absolute Atlanta Hub

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