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  • #91
    Originally posted by dazednconfused View Post
    If there is an 8 minute warmup in the next build I'm done with this game. I only play this and pretty much no other games so it's a hard choice but I can't afford to waste 8 minutes to play a game at my age.
    .Perfectly said. I am thinking exactly the same thing.

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    • #92
      Another thing to consider about this 8 minute warm up mode. If this is a forum where the players put in their ideas, and I would guess the developers of the game read the forum, and this problem is NOT fixed soon, then they care not about the game. Yes I know, it is pre alpha, blah, blah, blah, but isn't this what this forum is for? Ideas, bug reports, and other things to help the game along? I like the game, but I am seeing less people play it every week, and I would bet this warm up issue is the main cause. And yes, I know, the game is not released yet, so nobody cares. The developers should care if they want the final product to sell. How many people out there would buy the game with the features it has now? before this last update I bet the amount of players was increasing. This weekend, I had a hard time just finding a match. The product needs to be built up and improved to one day be a product people will buy. I do not see that happening right now.

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      • #93
        Get rid of Warmup & Ready MODES !!!





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        • #94
          I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with haing a wait-time to allow a match to fill either fully or a reduced time to fill partially (as it is now) but the default (which I understand is impossible to override?) times are too long. Being in a 6/7 player match with 8 min-desired players, waiting for 8 minutes or so is just painful so people leave or occasionally task-swap out and then forget about it and become idlers. The biggest problems I see at the moment are the easiest to solve and I mentioned this on the thread for the changelog for the last patch too - in a nutshell, roughly halve the wait-times, and deal much more sensibly and strictly with idling players who still seem to be able to unbalance multiple games in a row currently (without any limit?) where calls to other players for them to be kicked can go on for multiple games just to regain at least a reasonable degree of balance! The direction Epic has taken isn't unreasonable but its implementation appears to have been completely untested and a shot in the dark, which has not payed off.

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          • #95
            Said it before, will say it again. The intern who had the idea to introduce this "feature" should be fired. The moment I see "waiting for x player" I minimize UT and do something else. At least make the Icon of UT blink in the taskbar when the game is full. (Cool feature from a game called Awesomenauts) There you have to wait too for other players (but not for 8 minutes lol) and it makes sure people see that the game is ready even if the game itself is minimized.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by monkeylou View Post
              At least make the Icon of UT blink in the taskbar when the game is full. (Cool feature from a game called Awesomenauts) There you have to wait too for other players (but not for 8 minutes lol) and it makes sure people see that the game is ready even if the game itself is minimized.
              Oh, yes, definitely!
              That would be so helpful if the icon in the taskbar icon blinked on map load (in case of duel matchmaking/quick play) and when the warmup ends/is about to end! I don't mind the longer waiting times as long as I can reliably tab out to check social networks or watch a youtube video and not be afraid I'll miss out or be an idler.
              This forum post was sponsored by coffee, cigarettes and procrastination at work.
              I tweet occasionally at @pundurs and stream embarrassingly bad game play on my Twitch.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by monkeylou View Post
                Said it before, will say it again. The intern who had the idea to introduce this "feature" should be fired. The moment I see "waiting for x player" I minimize UT and do something else. At least make the Icon of UT blink in the taskbar when the game is full. (Cool feature from a game called Awesomenauts) There you have to wait too for other players (but not for 8 minutes lol) and it makes sure people see that the game is ready even if the game itself is minimized.
                Blinking icon or some other notification would be good, yus!

                Don't think the idea itself is terrible, but is just too extreme currently. I've played plenty of 3vs3 CTF and FlagRun matches (albeit with bots usually making it 5vs5 or 6vs6) and not really been bothered about not having full (human) teams. Nothing wrong with keeping warmup mode or waiting a bit (sometimes it's even nice to have a short break between rounds), but 4 mins, give or take, should be the default - e.g. 2 mins or until 8 players -> 2 extra mins or until 6 players -> start. You can't please everyone but having less extreme defaults and giving server admins/instance starters the option to override those 4 variables (MinDesiredPlayers_High, MinDesiredPlayers_Low, and the associated wait times) seems like the best way forward to me rather than just completely removing a new game mechanic which probably just needs some tweaking.

                (PS: Sorry to any forum admins if this appears twice - first attempt at posting seemed to fail)

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                • #98
                  Actually there is something wrong with waiting for players. You know what isn't wrong? ALLOWING players to wait according to majority vote. The previous ready system was functionally better in every way and just needed tweaked. This is why I hold no hope for UT4. What precious little effort is actually available to develop the game is regularly being spent on making the game demonstrably worse.

                  If half as much time was spent considering the impact and/or player experience of these hair-brained ideas as in implementing them, the ideas would be - like the implementations - only half broken.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by HonoredMule View Post
                    The previous ready system was functionally better in every way and just needed tweaked. This is why I hold no hope for UT4. What precious little effort is actually available to develop the game is regularly being spent on making the game demonstrably worse.

                    If half as much time was spent considering the impact and/or player experience of these hair-brained ideas as in implementing them, the ideas would be - like the implementations - only half broken.
                    Frankly, I now play about half as much as I used to. Probably less. I still enjoy the gameplay. But the cost to experience the gameplay is wasting 8 minutes of my valuable time, every single time. A formerly 20-minute game of UT is almost 50% longer now because of warmup. I used to be able to play before going to work, now I can't. I used to be able to play while waiting for water to boil, now I can't. I used to be able to play while my SO is in the shower, now I can't. And the gameplay quality has gone down significantly too. Each game includes multiple AFKs because they left during the 8-minute warmup to read reddit and didn't know the game started. Each game is more stacked than normal because people seem to think after paying 8 wasted minutes to play, they need to increase their chances of winning and getting a rank up (Ranks are the 2nd most important problem with this game, after the development process). And finally, but most importantly (I know this won't be read by anyone of consequence, and if they do they will not believe this to be true), I have completely lost faith that Epic is competent enough to hotfix a serious bug when they create one. Maybe even worse, is Epic doesn't have the foresight or testing team/process to confirm that their release doesn't include major bugs or UX issues.

                    What I've learned from this experience is A) Epic will allow game-breaking bugs to get into their releases because they don't have a reasonable QA process or QA team, I don't know which, and B) If they _do_ allow a game-breaking bug in to the game, they'll make players deal with it for _more than a month_ so they can avoid spending maybe 3 man hours on a rollback. Meanwhile, their players have probably wasted cumulative hundreds of man-hours to this bug (8 minutes times 9 players in a almost-full CTF is 72 man-minutes wasted, for a single game of UT). Even alpha testers, who are ostensibly performing a service for Epic, are not considered worthy of a simple rollback which requires only a _deployment_, not even any development work. This patch was unarguably a net negative for the game, and the negligible effort of a rollback to maintain Epic's image as a competent development shop, was not worth their time. Waiting until the next regularly-scheduled update to fix this is an insult to your alpha testers who have probably been ruining their reputation by recommending this game to their friends only to waste their friends' time. For the last month, I've been retracting my recommendations to try this game and advising people to steer clear at all costs -- there is nothing to be gained. With 8 minute warmups, you are wasting so much time that you can't even learn the game and get good at it as a new player. Just imagine of everyone I told to steer clear told two other people to steer clear, and they told two other people, and so on. Is this the marketing plan you have in mind for UT4?

                    Maybe I'm being harsh here, but after dealing with this for a month (and fixing maybe 10 or 15 breaking bugs, including a rollback, in my own projects during the same time), I've fully lost faith in what was my _favorite_ gamedev company. I'll perhaps still enjoy this game once in a while when I have 8 minutes to throw in the garbage, but I have completely stopped suggesting to other people that they try this game -- I respect other human beings' time too much to ask them to throw their own time in the trash.

                    Really Epic, I hate to add insult to injury here because you were my all-time favorite game company that produced my all-time favorite games, but _all you had to do_ was take the good things from old UT games and not add stupid ****. Just look at all the cruft that doesn't relate to UT gameplay that was added and the core gameplay mechanics that were removed. Ranks, added as an incentive to stack teams and reduce competitive gameplay. 8-minute warmup, added for NO REASON other than to waste people's time or because Epic didn't feel like testing it. You can no longer start an online game with 2 players and filled by bots without having your own server (!!!!), and it's been that way for over a month. Team shuffling and balancing, a mechanism to produce competitive gameplay, was removed and was never present in UT4 to my knowledge. Middle-of-your-screen kill and kill _assist_ notifications and sounds were added, so you can't see what you're shooting at after you get a kill. Weapon switch times were increased, so the skill cap is lower. Respawn timers added in CTF, making gameplay slower and sparser. HUBS, one of the worst ****ing decisions in all of UT4, were added to murder the custom server communities that made every past UT game great. Are these just experiments or are these decisions some Executive made and handed down to passionate developers who want to create a great game instead of implementing an Exec's vision? I've been there, as a developer, and it looks exactly like this. (BTW, I quit that job and my new job is immeasurably better... so don't feel stuck if this is the case, Epic devs). Is there ever going to be any serious effort put in to evaluating the decisions made in this game's development and deciding which ones are good or bad? Are players going to be asked for their opinions on bull**** like 8 minute warmup for a 20 minute game, kill/assist screen-blocking notifications, and weapon switch timers?

                    I have a really hard time believing that people will stick around to play this game for any significant period after release unless the standard microtransaction casino system is built on top. Then people won't be staying for UT, they'll be staying because of stockholm syndrome. Not that I claim to know the future, I just believe Epic has gotten on the "Evil" for-profit-but-not-for-fun game development train and will never get back on the rails they used to be on.
                    Last edited by Moocat87; 03-26-2017, 12:53 PM.

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                    • The above post just about sums it up, bravo.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Moocat87 View Post
                        Frankly, I now play about half as much as I used to. Probably less. I still enjoy the gameplay. But the cost to experience the gameplay is wasting 8 minutes of my valuable time, every single time. A formerly 20-minute game of UT is almost 50% longer now because of warmup. I used to be able to play before going to work, now I can't. I used to be able to play while waiting for water to boil, now I can't. I used to be able to play while my SO is in the shower, now I can't. And the gameplay quality has gone down significantly too. Each game includes multiple AFKs because they left during the 8-minute warmup to read reddit and didn't know the game started. Each game is more stacked than normal because people seem to think after paying 8 wasted minutes to play, they need to increase their chances of winning and getting a rank up (Ranks are the 2nd most important problem with this game, after the development process). And finally, but most importantly (I know this won't be read by anyone of consequence, and if they do they will not believe this to be true), I have completely lost faith that Epic is competent enough to hotfix a serious bug when they create one. Maybe even worse, is Epic doesn't have the foresight or testing team/process to confirm that their release doesn't include major bugs or UX issues.

                        What I've learned from this experience is A) Epic will allow game-breaking bugs to get into their releases because they don't have a reasonable QA process or QA team, I don't know which, and B) If they _do_ allow a game-breaking bug in to the game, they'll make players deal with it for _more than a month_ so they can avoid spending maybe 3 man hours on a rollback. Meanwhile, their players have probably wasted cumulative hundreds of man-hours to this bug (8 minutes times 9 players in a almost-full CTF is 72 man-minutes wasted, for a single game of UT). Even alpha testers, who are ostensibly performing a service for Epic, are not considered worthy of a simple rollback which requires only a _deployment_, not even any development work. This patch was unarguably a net negative for the game, and the negligible effort of a rollback to maintain Epic's image as a competent development shop, was not worth their time. Waiting until the next regularly-scheduled update to fix this is an insult to your alpha testers who have probably been ruining their reputation by recommending this game to their friends only to waste their friends' time. For the last month, I've been retracting my recommendations to try this game and advising people to steer clear at all costs -- there is nothing to be gained. With 8 minute warmups, you are wasting so much time that you can't even learn the game and get good at it as a new player. Just imagine of everyone I told to steer clear told two other people to steer clear, and they told two other people, and so on. Is this the marketing plan you have in mind for UT4?

                        Maybe I'm being harsh here, but after dealing with this for a month (and fixing maybe 10 or 15 breaking bugs, including a rollback, in my own projects during the same time), I've fully lost faith in what was my _favorite_ gamedev company. I'll perhaps still enjoy this game once in a while when I have 8 minutes to throw in the garbage, but I have completely stopped suggesting to other people that they try this game -- I respect other human beings' time too much to ask them to throw their own time in the trash.

                        Really Epic, I hate to add insult to injury here because you were my all-time favorite game company that produced my all-time favorite games, but _all you had to do_ was take the good things from old UT games and not add stupid ****. Just look at all the cruft that doesn't relate to UT gameplay that was added and the core gameplay mechanics that were removed. Ranks, added as an incentive to stack teams and reduce competitive gameplay. 8-minute warmup, added for NO REASON other than to waste people's time or because Epic didn't feel like testing it. You can no longer start an online game with 2 players and filled by bots without having your own server (!!!!), and it's been that way for over a month. Team shuffling and balancing, a mechanism to produce competitive gameplay, was removed and was never present in UT4 to my knowledge. Middle-of-your-screen kill and kill _assist_ notifications and sounds were added, so you can't see what you're shooting at after you get a kill. Weapon switch times were increased, so the skill cap is lower. Respawn timers added in CTF, making gameplay slower and sparser. HUBS, one of the worst ****ing decisions in all of UT4, were added to murder the custom server communities that made every past UT game great. Are these just experiments or are these decisions some Executive made and handed down to passionate developers who want to create a great game instead of implementing an Exec's vision? I've been there, as a developer, and it looks exactly like this. (BTW, I quit that job and my new job is immeasurably better... so don't feel stuck if this is the case, Epic devs). Is there ever going to be any serious effort put in to evaluating the decisions made in this game's development and deciding which ones are good or bad? Are players going to be asked for their opinions on bull**** like 8 minute warmup for a 20 minute game, kill/assist screen-blocking notifications, and weapon switch timers?

                        I have a really hard time believing that people will stick around to play this game for any significant period after release unless the standard microtransaction casino system is built on top. Then people won't be staying for UT, they'll be staying because of stockholm syndrome. Not that I claim to know the future, I just believe Epic has gotten on the "Evil" for-profit-but-not-for-fun game development train and will never get back on the rails they used to be on.
                        The Moo Cat has spoken.

                        Comment


                        • Well said moocat. As a player in a free prealpha this is just throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. As a ut2014 consumer I just keep watching the player count drop.I am a customer and I want to play.

                          Comment


                          • I think the big disappointment is that they didn't change their schedule when the 8 minute warm-up nightmare became clear to them. It does show what we all suspect - they don't actually play outside of their office and there is a disconnect between them and the community.
                            Current Main Issues: Tri-Rox (Remove), Flak (reduce damage and initial shard collision size), Team Balance, Warm-up too long, Scoreboards lack player stats, Spawn Delay.

                            My Plays.TV random frags to scroll through: http://plays.tv/u/Smurgl

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Smurgl View Post
                              I think the big disappointment is that they didn't change their schedule when the 8 minute warm-up nightmare became clear to them. It does show what we all suspect - they don't actually play outside of their office and there is a disconnect between them and the community.
                              yup, exactly ^

                              Comment


                              • There you go, thats how much they listen.. New Update, much hated WARMUP mode still there down to a minute... How hard would have it been to simply remove it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                Get rid of Warmup MODE !!!

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