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  • I guess UT is no more after this:

    https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/11/...llion-players/


    10 million players in 2 weeks - its obvious what Epic is going to do next few years: Fortnite and Paragon

    there is no money in arena shooters
    godda*nit
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    • Originally posted by Furma View Post
      I guess UT is no more after this:

      https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/11/...llion-players/


      10 million players in 2 weeks - its obvious what Epic is going to do next few years: Fortnite and Paragon

      there is no money in arena shooters
      godda*nit


      Wow. That's a whole load of cash right there. I think you're right about arena shooters too. There just isn't enough people willing to eat dirt for a few months before getting decent. The type A personality seems to be in general decline everywhere.

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      • Originally posted by Sir_Brizz View Post
        And beyond that, as other have mentioned in this thread, games that are in similar market spaces as UT would be have pretty much unilaterally failed. That's despite trying to be old school, trying to add gimmicks, and trying to add mechanics that mimic "modern gaming". It's unrealistic to think that anything Epic does with UT will buck this obvious market trend.
        It really depends on your measure of success. Lawbreakers' beta had 7,000 concurrent players. Quake Live had 5,000 on launch day. Quake Champions had 2,000. If these games had actually retained those numbers, that would put them at the bottom end of the Steam top 100, which actually wouldn't be that bad for a small game.

        Other shooters with niche audiences like Insurgency and Red Orchestra 2 were consistently hitting those numbers in their prime, making the community healthy enough that you could always find a game. For a small dev team it's enough money to stay in business and keep working on sequels.

        The main problem (aside from not retaining those numbers) is simply that devs like Epic and Id aren't small indie teams. The income that likely comes from a small audiences like this likely isn't enough to fund larger studios. If a successful game is going to arrive in this genre, it has to be from a studio with small enough overhead that the modest income from this kind of niche game comprises sustainable profits instead of an un-repeatable loss.

        IMO it is possible that a small indie team could come around and make an AFPS with all the right ingredients to sustain 3-5k concurrent players and make enough to keep the lights on and keep updating the game and even make a sequel. It just hasn't happened yet; the indie projects which have come around haven't got the formula quite right, fracturing the potential audience with components which alienate one part of the community or another.

        It also doesn't help that the market has become saturated with failure,; if anyone does come around and do all the right things to pull a success from this genre, it probably won't be for another couple years, after the market has had time to cool off, and buyers have forgotten the mis-steps of the past.

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        • this goes back to when "UT4" started, a few of the old crew "modders" want to redo UT in the UE4 engine and wanted to call it "Open Tournament", basically they got a C&D then the Epic guys took over, i can understand the thinking as UT was always cutting edge tech with awesom visuals which is something most mod team don't reach till near the end.

          think now maybe it would have been better to let the OT team run with the ball and let it die a natural death.

          for me the let down was tomany 99'ers wanting a re-make and just to few gametypes to choose from (ONS/WAR), i personnaly think it needs something for the casual players, i don't enjoy online matchs where i just get fragged all the time. but that just me
          UT40K:The Chosen - Warhammer 40,000 for UE4
          ut40kgeodav - UE4 Tutorials

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          • Not everyone can afford an Aston Martin. This doesn't mean there shouldn't be an enthusiasts market.
            Originally posted by Mysterial
            An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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            • Originally posted by -AEnubis- View Post
              Not everyone can afford an Aston Martin. This doesn't mean there shouldn't be an enthusiasts market.

              Aston Martin make a lot of money. What's your point?

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              • They have figured out how to be profitable serving a small market.
                Originally posted by Mysterial
                An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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                • I find it odd that so many who hate on the devs seem to be in the HUBs on a regular basis. A modicum of consistency would imply that those who think the game is a wash would not be playing.
                  No one sees what tomorrow knows.

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                  • #prealpha. Gotta play to know what's bad with the game. You won't see me in the servers if it goes beta with ping comp. Also internet friends.
                    Originally posted by Mysterial
                    An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Geodav View Post
                      this goes back to when "UT4" started, a few of the old crew "modders" want to redo UT in the UE4 engine and wanted to call it "Open Tournament", basically they got a C&D then the Epic guys took over, i can understand the thinking as UT was always cutting edge tech with awesom visuals which is something most mod team don't reach till near the end.

                      think now maybe it would have been better to let the OT team run with the ball and let it die a natural death.
                      This is why I think Toxikk almost could have been the small indie game we've been looking for. They got the movement and scale right, and even hit a compromise between 2k4/UT1 feel which could have satisfied the whole UT1 community. They even have a nice-looking clone of Deck called Dekk which is really blatant and never incurred legal action of Epic.

                      The main thing they were missing is the arsenal, which is arguably the most characteristic part of UT and toughest to replicate without encroaching on IP enough to cause problems. Still Epic doesn't own i.e. a spread primary fire with arcing bomb secondary fire. As long as you don't name it "Flak Cannon" and don't make it look identical, it shouldn't be a legal problem. Even shock combos are replicable as long as you change the name and have them look slightly different.

                      If Toxikk had stuck closer to UT on the arsenal and handled publicity just a bit better IMO it could have been much more successful and developed a stronger following.

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                      • Originally posted by -AEnubis- View Post
                        #prealpha. Gotta play to know what's bad with the game. You won't see me in the servers if it goes beta with ping comp. Also internet friends.
                        At least there should be an option to turn it off on a server, even if its not the default. I think most servers will prefer to turn it off.

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                        • I don't know. Part of the difference this time was doing it at the engine level. Not sure what effect that will have on simply being able to disable it, as I don't know a ton about the levels of replication. I do know that the effect is has on the game feel could be potentially polarizing. Though, at this point another community split is better than another game I won't play.
                          Originally posted by Mysterial
                          An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

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                          • i suppose the "ping comp" might be a way forward to get more people playing, unless you live in a MegaCity with superfast broadband then your always playing with one hand tied behind your back, even having a good pc won't help, even in these so-called modern age, high ping will spoil the fun, so unless the server is next door or the game is lan only. i think you guys realise where i'm going, either a game for the elite or the masses take your pick.
                            UT40K:The Chosen - Warhammer 40,000 for UE4
                            ut40kgeodav - UE4 Tutorials

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                            • Well, by definition, most people live in "Mega cities", so no matter how you slice that pie, ping comp serves a minority. Typically even playing from one "Mega city" to the next nearest one, plays like a LAN. With a decent connection, coast to coast here in the states is under 100ms. So for a casual game on the opposite coast, 80ms is totally acceptable. From either coast to a central server is fine for semi-serious competition. Should be sub 60ms. You'll travel to a LAN for any money competition anyways. I've heard connection are better across EU.

                              It's best for dying games who need to facilitate playing over long distances due to not being able to fill up servers. The damage it does to game polish isn't worth it for game play like UT has, with slow moving projectiles subject to visual discrepancies and thus duds.
                              Originally posted by Mysterial
                              An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

                              Comment


                              • If you can't get internet over 20mb/s then you shouldn't be playing competitive online FPS games and ruining it for the rest of us. If you think high ping spoils a server, one 200+ ping player is even worse.

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