Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The old Redeemer code needs to return

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    The old Redeemer code needs to return

    Recently, I was playing UT2k4 and used the Redeemer in some of the maps. Every time I used the primary fire, I realized how much I missed the dumb fire option in the pre-alpha of the current UT, which is why Epic should bring back the older code of this BFG. What I'm saying is that the primary fire should no longer be missile-guided like the secondary.

    R.I.P. Redeemer 1999-2017

    #2
    yeah its stupid. I don't get how its suppose to work. I read on the tips in the release notes that you primary fire and then right click to "let go" of the deemer into a straight non guided mode, but its doesn't work, instead just blowing up and nuking myself.

    Comment


      #3
      Ever since they changed it I just forced myself to right click launch and left to detonate. If I don't I blow myself up
      P.S. denying the redeemer always gets me killed as well.

      Comment


        #4
        another fine example of if it aint broke break it trend that happens a lot around here.
        Join the community Facebook page
        https://www.facebook.com/pages/Unreal-Tournament-4-Community/302380673298678

        Comment


          #5
          I haven't cared for the redeemer mechanics since UT, and even with how it worked in UT, I wouldn't miss guiding at all. It should have an arming delay to prevent spiking, and pretty much only fire straight, relatively slow, easy to shoot down (but not necessarily "one shot" with anything), do full FF (even if as an exception to the match settings), and definitely not do wrap around splash. I do like the messaging, announcing it being fire, and seeing it on a players back or in a players hands.

          For as destructive as it is, it needs to maintain and promote a lot of counter play. So heavy messaging, and counterability making the destructive capability of it balanced the the skill to use it. Not necessarily in how you use it, but knowing when, and where from.


          I've never countered one in UT4. They feel cheap.
          Originally posted by Mysterial
          An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by code187 View Post
            another fine example of if it aint broke break it trend that happens a lot around here.
            I actually hate the current implementation - it seemed perfectly fine before. However, in a normal pre-alpha dev period, testing different approaches and throwing out the bad ones is supposed to be part of the process. Since the game is for all intents and purposes on hold at the moment, it looks like we're stuck with this implementation for a while.
            Unreal Carnage.com UT4 Maps: DM-Maelstrom DM-SpaceNoxx

            Comment


              #7
              Now, I'm worried about the future of that weapon.

              Comment


                #8
                Yeah, the current functionality is really stupid, but if we're being honest, most servers have always disabled the Redeemer even when it wasn't so screwed up. If anything, UT should just scrap the Redeemer and try to come up with a power weapon skillful and balanced enough that its viable for competitive play and most servers actually want to keep it enabled.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Epic has seemed dead set on keeping it a pub gimmick so noobs can get some cheap easy multi kills. I started a thread a while back about potential toned down super weapons. It wasn't well received.
                  Originally posted by Mysterial
                  An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by -AEnubis- View Post
                    I haven't cared for the redeemer mechanics since UT, and even with how it worked in UT, I wouldn't miss guiding at all. It should have an arming delay to prevent spiking, and pretty much only fire straight, relatively slow, easy to shoot down (but not necessarily "one shot" with anything), do full FF (even if as an exception to the match settings), and definitely not do wrap around splash. I do like the messaging, announcing it being fire, and seeing it on a players back or in a players hands.

                    For as destructive as it is, it needs to maintain and promote a lot of counter play. So heavy messaging, and counterability making the destructive capability of it balanced the the skill to use it. Not necessarily in how you use it, but knowing when, and where from.


                    I've never countered one in UT4. They feel cheap.


                    I totally disagree in regards to alt fire. Alt fire for Redeemer should be left alone. I think we are going down the road of overbalancing.
                    The game needs to retain a fun aspect. I want to be able to blow several people up instantly.
                    I don't know about you. But that's fun.
                    How would this effect the strangelove mod?
                    If someone reading is new to what the strangelove mod is , watch below.
                    Last edited by d33p_Sky; 09-09-2017, 04:10 PM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      If the Redeemer were toned down to something more like a Halo RL with the option for remote pilot, it'd be a lot more tolerable. Unfortunately then it starts to become too much like a "super rocket launcher" rather than feeling like a unique weapon, but at least it's a relatively simple solution.

                      One of the things a lot of people don't know about the BFG in Doom 1/2 and Quake 2 is that mechanically it's not just a big explosion. There is a basic straight-forward rocket-style splash, but relying on that alone won't deal the maximum amount of damage. The game traces an infinite-distance line between you, the impact point, and everyone in your field of view. In other words, as long as there's no obstruction between you and the BFG blast, anyone visible on your screen who also doesn't have an obstruction between themselves and blast will take additional damage, regardless of the distances involved.

                      So unlike the Redeemer, you can't just lob a projectile down the hallway and run away while everyone in that room dies. You have to maintain the unbroken triangular "lines of sight" between yourself, the blast, and your targets, while avoiding their return fire, in order to get true room-wiping damage.

                      Even with this mechanic, the BFG can still be a cheap n00b-friendly frag tool, but it does make it a more complex and skillful weapon than otherwise. I'd liken it to a "super shock combo", if the combo also requires a line of sight between the shooter and its victims. In fact, beefing up shock projectiles a bit and positioning the Shock Rifle as a super weapon would probably be the simplest answer to creating a skill-based power weapon.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by s2ta View Post
                        How would this effect the strangelove mod?
                        The Strangelove mod is a mod.

                        It uses a custom projectile class.

                        If Epic decided to release a patch for UT2004 tomorrow re-balancing the Redeemer, the Strangelove mod would retain the same code and would most likely function the exact same way. Even if it didn't, it would be relatively easy for modders to go in and fix whatever broke.

                        It might be slightly extra work for someone to recreate Strangelove for UT4 if the vanilla Redeemer projectile were altered, but ultimately since they are still creating custom projectile classes, the added work is pretty minor compared to the rest of the work involved in the mod.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          You disagree that I wouldn't miss the alt fire? I assure you I wouldn't.

                          I'm not saying I think it needs to go. It could be tooled to be tolerable. Strange love was fun, but like everything "fun" that isn't balanced, it's fun is fleeting.

                          Even with guiding, the 'deemer was very counterable in '99. Almost too much so in 2kx. I distinctly remember driving it in zig zags to avoid being shot down.

                          That said, how easy it is to counter is going to be determined by a lot of variables that are as of yet undetermined. In 2kx, for example, the scaling and hit scan dominance made them easy targets in wide open areas. The tighter maps in UT made it usually pretty easy to find a corner to tuck into, or a pillar is hide behind. I prefer people individually having to exercise situational awareness to avoid death, than one lone hit scan hero being able to save his team, but how easy they are to counter with guns will also change according to how easy the guns are to use, which is currently a major issue in this game. They will factor in with the size, hp, and speed of the projectile,etc, etc.
                          Originally posted by Mysterial
                          An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X