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Perfect balance is what we need?

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    Perfect balance is what we need?

    Hi all, I was reflecting on the popularity of different parts of the UT series and
    I think the least balanced games were more popular.

    UT99 was not perfect in terms of balance, good, but not perfect, there are many experiments. But hey, it was so fun.

    UT2004 went to extremes with vehicles. I find the onslaught mode is ridiculous and chaotic. But hey, it was also so much fun in it own way.

    And UT3. It's well balanced, almost everyone recognizes it. But hell, something always wrong with this game. I mean fans of UT99 do not find there the fun that was in UT99, and fans of UT2004 do not find there the fun that was in UT2004. This game is trying to please everyone and in the end does not please anyone.

    So maybe (just maybe) it's the extremes that's what we need? The balance in the game is important, but can not it all be worth building around it?

    I play in UT4 and it also tries to be perfectly balanced and it's so boring. I do not find that fun that was in UT99. The sniper rifle was the OP they say. So it was so great! Yes, it need a bit fixes, but not radically. And what's wrong with grenades in the rocketlauncher? Return! All 6 charges!

    I think that it is these roughnesses of the gameplay that make the games more vivid and memorable.

    I agree, the sniper rifle and rocket launcher should be more powerful than most other weapons, I think it's up to the level designer to make a balanced map, Udamage for example is supposed to be overpowered but it depends where you place it in the level.


      The weapons will more than likely never achieve "perfect balance" as environmental changes will disproportionately effect the weapons, especially when they maintain such drastically different skill ceilings. The environment will change. Pings will get lower, rigs will get better, scans will get easier.

      This is also why the UT Sniper Rifle is so OP now, but was acceptable on release. For those of you who missed it, most people were still on 56k when UT came out, so that Sniper Rifle was pretty balanced, then. Now, it's a different story.

      Grenades haven't been removed from the RL because they are OP, they were removed because they are a flawed mechanic that has a really low skill ceiling, which is only acceptable because they aren't crazy effective. The problem is the new fire mode switching logic the RL uses breaks salvos because it allows the user to pre-load-and-ditch them to grenades if they don't find a target. Recall in UT, once you committed to rockets (primary) or grenades (secondary) you could not switch until you emptied the chamber(s). I wouldn't mind a full stop switch back to the Eightball launcher, but grenades sill need tweaks. Like timed detonation only, no "auto-detonate on player." Either that, or people need to be able to shoot them to clear them.

      All that said, true "balance" isn't really about this gun vs that gun, it's about how the guns come together to foster different play styles. The Pulse Rifle doesn't, and probably shouldn't be equally as efficient as the Sniper Rifle. The real question is how the totality of the weapons effects different play styles. At the moment, keeping line of sight with anyone is guaranteed damage, which destroys aggressive "in your face" play styles. The only effective "in your face" style right now is ambush play. Beyond that, it's all about long ranged peek and poke, and the problem isn't any one weapon in particular, but how low the skill floor is on all the weapons, making it far too easy to do damage to any target you see, within a reasonable range for the weapon.
      Originally posted by Mysterial
      An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.


        Yes, and it's because of those problems (particularly the hitscan-related ones) that tight maps with limited open space are the only fun ones (unless you're the best player in the game by a fair margin). The game variety is pretty limited when fun gameplay is so heavily dependent on the environment itself, which already has a lot of responsibility supporting varied movement styles and parkour antics, "trickshot" opportunities, verticality, and well-connected layouts.