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Quake Champions and UT pre Alpha

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    Quake Champions and UT pre Alpha

    Quake Champions is pretty good. Definitely fills the void while UT4 is trying to find its identity..
    I think ID software took some chances with Champions having different abilities.
    If that was to happen with the new unreal tournament game I feel like the UT99 crowd would have issue with it. Its too exotic.
    Much like the way they feel about the shield gun being in game.
    And yes , shots fired at UT99 purists.. The new UT game needs to be fun. It needs to be dynamic with abilities(whether it be guns, power-ups , character abilities, ADRENALINE SYSTEM).
    Replay value is key as well. We need Onslaught back.

    Also the interlude between matches needs to be super short like the old days.. its keeps people playing. Should be looped. Players will still be able to OPT out.
    Play Quake champions and you'll see what i mean. Thats how UT2004 did it with a short interlude(time period) between matches. Some servers did that with a rotating game mode mixed in.
    CTF....VCTF...ONS.... short interlude is key though because it keeps people on the server.

    From a design perspective it does make sense for UT to be on hold considering Quake Champions is still in early access and development.
    Last edited by d33p_Sky; 06-27-2018, 03:09 PM.

    #2
    2kx adren was proven to be a mistake, mostly due to it being a steam roll mechanic (more positive feedback), difficult to balance, and really just more hud stuff to keep track of.

    Finally put in a few hours on QC, and the "cool down" abilities don't bother me too much, other than having to learn what a bunch of characters are capable of without having used them yourself, pre grinding them, which kind of introduces a second hand "pay to win" mechanic, albeit one that can be overcome with experience.

    That aside, QC demonstrates the same issues the current UT4 does (as far as gameplay mechanics go). Low skill ceiling weapons favor defensive play. Thus far, my best games have been ones where I pretty much CSJ to my first weapon, then zone and camp to stack and frag, usually best doing so utilizing cover, and staying close to teammates. There's not a whole lot of integral retention going on, but they distract you with loot boxes, daily challenges, pretty graphics, and various other forms of grind and story telling you keep you engaged.

    The kind of game play us "UT99 Purists" are looking for is one where you can focus on the actual game play above all else. I don't like having to bury my face in my hud half the game to track stack, and what weapons I have, nor do I want to "find cover" so as to make that even viable. I want an in-your-face, action packed game where I get to test the whole gamut of mechanical, and tactical skills. One where not just aim and positioning is relevant, but defensive AND reactive movement can lead to "out in the open" diversion, coercion, and otherwise complex fragging interactions. This is why CA/TAM/Elim are currently dominating the player counts. That said, there is no reason true arena game types can't make a comeback, provided weapon efficacy comes down, and it becomes easier to track your current health, without doing a bunch of hud math.

    The appeal to UT (heavily facilitated by the dodge sitting opposite slow moving projectiles) was the notion of making interaction less like "gun fights" and more like long ranged "sword fights."

    No sequel has captured that feel, and the only competitors to come close/surpass, are FPSz's.

    Damage taken messaging has gotten worse and worse. Combine that with low efficacy weapons making dealing damage very easy, and the need to constantly refer to your hud is becoming more and more extreme. This is why most "UT99 Purists" also don't mind new movement mechanics to ad some depth to said interactions, because they facilitate those kinds of interaction, and make them more complex, not contribute to reading your hud more, provided they aren't magic hoaky air jumps, and trash scaling. All you really needed for a hud in UT was the paper doll, which was much easier to glance at.
    Originally posted by Mysterial
    An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

    Comment


      #3
      Finally put in a few hours on QC, and the "cool down" abilities don't bother me too much, other than having to learn what a bunch of characters are capable of without having used them yourself, pre grinding them, which kind of introduces a second hand "pay to win" mechanic, albeit one that can be overcome with experience.

      That aside, QC demonstrates the same issues the current UT4 does (as far as gameplay mechanics go). Low skill ceiling weapons favor defensive play. Thus far, my best games have been ones where I pretty much CSJ to my first weapon, then zone and camp to stack and frag, usually best doing so utilizing cover, and staying close to teammates. There's not a whole lot of integral retention going on, but they distract you with loot boxes, daily challenges, pretty graphics, and various other forms of grind and story telling you keep you engaged.
      The abilities don't make much of a difference unless in the hands pf people who know how to actually use them and even then, they balance out quite well.

      If you're playing TDM, then yes, the skill ceiling feels low and the game quite spammy which is ultimately best for people who haven't mastered the details yet. It's only when you get into the ranked 2v2 that things really change: weapon choice is paramount, movement is king, item control is an absolute must and deploying the abilities become much more tactical. The new UT is similar in most ways: movement is vital, weapon selection is paramount, controlling powerups critical to survival but in a crowded server, things get spammy as well. Ultimately I don't see a great difference between them with level of polish and general width of the two differing.

      The items gained through play are entirely cosmetic, so the only 'grind' is to unlock new champions and as I said before, all of them are quite equally dangerous in the right hands. I play Galena almost exclusively despite owing the champions pack. She's a 'medium' champion regarding stats but I do fine, despite a map full of Keels, Sorlags and Scalebearers, 3 of the bigger, tankier champs. I am not a skilled player at all and as I get better, I suspect that the smaller champs will be even more useful.

      In my mind, I keep asking "where in this level of development is UT?" QC has more characters, the movement feels more defined and simpler (a couple of characters aside, circle strafing and strafe jumping serve all champs the same), weapons feel balanced and marketing. That's it really. QC still has a lot of work to do on gametypes, bots, maps and tweaking a few things (weapons, abilities). So why is UT seen as 'dead' if the differences are in reality quite minor? I can't quite answer that actually. Perception? Marketing? Community? Business plan/long-term viability? I don't really know but UT is quite far along making it even sadder that it hasn't been carried into the end zone. It's so close to being at least as far along as QC, if not farther.
      My Unreal game collection. Unreal series screenshots (2560x1440)

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        #4
        I was mostly referring to my subjective experience with the particular champion who turns invisible. I haven't learned to identify her by sight yet, so she disappears, kills me, and I don't know what's going on. Also some either hero's or things cause people to glow colors (sometimes the friendly team color) that has had me hesitant to shoot an enemy that promptly mows me down.

        I know these things will be learned long before I have the chance to play all the champions, but it would be nice to learn them first hand instead of second, which you can only seemingly do by buying them all out the gate.

        Weapon switching is a bit slow, even when cold, which I'm also not a huge fan of, but my biggest gripes are Rail and LG damage. They were right to decrease rails to 80 in QL, dunno why they went backwards on that. LG needs to come down to 5 like they had previously talked about. The cone, lack of push, and lower RoF on the LMG will keep it inferior. I do like that they dumped plasma for nails aesthetically, and the Tribolt strikes me as a bit OP, but I think I need to play with it more. They are undodgably fast, and deal - from what I can tell - up to 45x3? Especially since the max stack of any champion seems less than previous titles, and the mega is nerfed.
        Originally posted by Mysterial
        An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

        Comment


          #5
          On each champion's screen there is a short video that explains their ability. Weapon switching is a bit dumb right now; having to wait until the reload animation is done. This can be somewhat worked around, depending on the type of weapon you switch to/from. Tribolt is not as effective as it seems. Play a bit more and you'll see why.
          My Unreal game collection. Unreal series screenshots (2560x1440)

          Comment


            #6
            I really like waiting for the reload, as it keeps rails in check. This is a stock Quake constant. I would prefer, however, CPMA style switching when all your weapons are cold. I found the vids after my first map of being abused by her. They were helpful.
            Originally posted by Mysterial
            An instant hit, accurate, instant kill weapon is overpowered. There's no skill ceiling. It's limited only by the shooter's accuracy. It also severely impairs the defensive side of the game - ignoring ping, it is nearly irrelevant what your opponent does - click the right pixel and you win. Even non-instant kill instant hit weapons are often problematic - the Shock Rifle example is obvious before even getting to other games.

            Comment


              #7
              I think quake champions is more or less a hunk of sh**t. It's like X MEN FPS. I bought it.. never play it.

              Comment


                #8
                I think quake champions is more or less a hunk of sh**t.
                Definitely more.

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