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Forecast of Unreal Tournament

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    Forecast of Unreal Tournament

    I'm predicting this project; Unreal Tournament will not be successful. My forecast defined by 'successful' predicts what the player count will be as time progresses judged by the 'playability' which will be the same as UT3 given the game is free. And my prediction of the future reviews too. However I do think a tremendous amount of work will be injected into this project by the community, and the result will be a finished professional looking product. Sadly beauty will be the main selling point. Here is the overall overview:

    As I'm sure like all the Unreal Tournaments, the maps will be magnificent and beautiful – though some maps reviewed on the cast may challenge that. There was a futuristic feel to UT3, and you can see the same in this new installment mixed in with the lighter, brighter atmosphere makes for an almost cartoony appearance. However over time the players will naturally begin to overplay the most playable maps ignoring the rest of the selection making most of all well-constructed maps pretty much ignored.

    Though I'm sure they have, and chosen to ignore so, the directions this game is taking would suggest the panel that are currently directing this new project have not read the countless reviews depicting disappointment about the previous game. Not to mention the way they speak and talk about the game alone, without watching their improvised live cast, you can tell right off the bat that compared to the core players that play the Unreal Tournament series religiously that these guys are a bunch of noobs...

    That's not to say everything about this is bad. For instance, I am happy to see consideration has been taken into improving the spectator's experience of E-Sports. A concept in which the viewer watches gameplay of their favourite teams and players as if it were actual sports matches. Which, I presume post match analysis of big games by the community to follow if the platform is there. That is definitely a future of gaming that will be a backbone in any form of achieved success, one of which I see evidence of only just being realised by the panel.

    The summation of my forecast:

    We are seeing history repeat. This title of Unreal Tournament should be dubbed UT3.3, as salvage efforts to resuscitate the failure that was and was again in UT3 Black. Over a short period of time after the final edition, the servers will empty faster than they did in the predecessor. And it will be almost another decade until the original team returns to the drawing board to repeat their failures once again. One must be careful when judging though, the problem with UT is, over time it has become property. People will take "stands" if they don't have it their way, were as, if UT was new, they would just shut their ******* mouth and accept it. Someone pointed out, the way of gaming has changed. UT isn't the revolutionary game it once was, the way of gaming has changed in fact, and UT needs to adapt to that with achievements and such like that. But when I play UT04, and how instantly addictive it is, I fear I won’t find the same in this new and somewhat quite exciting venture.

    To change this highly probable future - in blind sight from all the positivity – one would need to prioritise play over beauty. Need I point out the irony that the Unreal Engine shows off spectacular graphics, however the Unreal Tournament series is a game of skill in which players that play seriously will turn their distracting high graphics down in order to enhance their play. I will be reminded that the game is only in Pre-Alpha stage but with this direction it doesn't matter. Only a team with fresher ideas than the reintroduction of the ripper and adding multi-wall dodge and in place of double jump will save this reheated concept.

    Tell me I'm wrong with a why.
    Last edited by 4F; 05-22-2015, 06:34 AM. Reason: No indentation

    #2
    Originally posted by 4F View Post
    Tell me I'm wrong.
    You are wrong!

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by 4F View Post
      Tell me I'm wrong with a why.
      This installment of UT will (eventually) be successful. Why? Because it's an ongoing project to which anyone can contribute. Unlike previous versions of the game, this version is designed at its core to be extended and continually improved upon. As long as people are aware of this fact, it doesn't matter if it gets off to a slow start. The game will only get better with time, and that only stops when people stop caring. And if you look around these forums, it's pretty obvious that most people around here will never stop caring and contributing. Plus, I have no doubt that many newcomers will eventually feel the same passion for the game that old-timers do. The game has strong roots. Just give it time to grow.
      Creator of NewNet for UT99

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by 4F View Post
        The summation of my forecast:

        We are seeing history repeat. This title of Unreal Tournament should be dubbed UT3.3, as salvage efforts to resuscitate the failure that was and was again in UT3 Black.
        Stopped reading here, guy sees UT3 placeholders and thinks the game is like UT3. Does not even have the slightest clue how different the movement and weapon balance is.

        Comment


          #5
          Oh well absolutely by all means I have no doubt it will grow, exponentially even compared to what it is now and not without help by the generous efforts of the community. Perhaps my definition of successful was vague. Of course when a company as big as Epic Games gathers the support of the community as they have, there will be big waves. And what we will witness will undoubtedly impress. But what I'm referring to is the long run once the sparkling awe of something new has depreciated - a concept I feel a lot of people are overwhelmed by and even threatened by to the point of denial. Does it have legs? What is its legacy compared to what it could be? Think to '04 or UT3 and where we are now since their releases and what you would describe that as. I'm foreseeing a passing phase opposed to a way of life. Such is my prediction.

          As for my response to the heckler. My prediction is a serious one. And all personal feelings about directions the game was taking was removed judging purely on how well it plays and what the base customer is expecting having taken the past into account. Now you're there telling me how little I know about anything and my contributions are nothing more than impulsive and petty responses throwing all my toys out the pram just to relieve anger and stir something when you are wrong. Now you're going to have to forgive me terribly for thinking this, but what people are calling UT4 isn't exactly revolutionary that'll have you cuing for a space on brim full servers trying to see what all the fuss is about. And if there was one game to compare it too, what do you think it would be? One of which gives the feel of limitation as the pair share. One that does look very inviting. In fact, unless of course it being so obvious that I know nothing of what I'm talking about and that it's clear as day the difference, then you wouldn't have a problem enlightening me about what is so vastly different? It doesn't feel different in the slightest and that's what the general consensus will reflect. Because I get the itching and quite worrying feeling I'm whiffing the old 'UT Ego' which certainly is putting bias and emotion into a judgement.

          The majority of people I've spoken to aren't impressed having been spoiled rotten before UT3, and that folks is the elephant in the room - I'm sorry. I feel those that can't feel that will when that depreciation wares off but until then they will entirely ignore the value of this sentence. Whether you blindsight that or not, what I am saying will come to pass. I mean sure eventually everything dies, but the overall of what Unreal Tournament is I don't believe has peaked and that is a height we won't see or come close too. As in, more damage to the franchise than build.

          Comment


            #6
            Your predictions are the incoherent ramblings of someone who doesnt understand UT, this project or the love people have for it.
            PayBack

            Comment


              #7
              I don't want this to sound personal, but could you drop the formalism for readability's sake, please? To me it looks like your criticism is vague/not precise. You should try and match the level of detail of criticism to your ability to phrase it well.

              In other words: I would love to try and tell why you're wrong, but you delivered no real point we could argue about. You're saying that this game emphasizes beauty more than gameplay, without giving detailed information. If you want to argue on that level, all we can do is say "No it's not emphasizing beauty more than gameplay." And this kind of discussion leads us nowhere.

              Try and be more specific in your criticism.
              Last edited by rawlph; 05-22-2015, 09:48 AM.

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                #8
                Zoltar the Fortune teller has spoken
                X58 i7 970 4GHz HT off, GTX 1070, 144Hz 1ms, 1080p in-game res.

                Comment


                  #9
                  "Tell me I'm wrong with a why."

                  Ok, lets look at this statement:

                  "There was a futuristic feel to UT3, and you can see the same in this new installment mixed in with the lighter, brighter atmosphere makes for an almost cartoony appearance."

                  Not a great piece of logic here, if you see this as a possible reason for failure. The lighter, brighter atmosphere should increase the probability of success because it moves more toward the look and feel of UT99 which was far more successful than UT3. From a personal standpoint my friends and I played a ton of UT99 when it came out. It was terrific. I barely bothered with UT3. The alpha of UT4 has me back and excited again.

                  Did you play UT99, especially when it came out?


                  "Need I point out the irony that the Unreal Engine shows off spectacular graphics, however the Unreal Tournament series is a game of skill in which players that play seriously will turn their distracting high graphics down in order to enhance their play."

                  Again, this is another piece of suspect logic that doesn't seem grounded in past real world experience.

                  Many people that play seriously, play on the latest high-end equipment that is frequently modified for further performance gains. They are good enough that they can use the advantage of really high fps and they want to play this way in an immersive environment at a high resolution with lots of eye candy turned on. When I started asking people what they were using for UT4 I was surprised by the number of GTX 970's....and 980's (a $500 plus video card.)

                  Back in 2001 I was running UT99 in Glide on a sub-ambient water cooled 3dfx Voodoo 5500 with a 1 gig Athlon water cooled and overclocked by 40%. Killer UT setup for 2001.

                  I was one of the first people I know to switch to DDR.

                  Now I am investigating water cooling a GTX 980.

                  It will be the same as it ever was... good games with new and better graphics will drive hardware sales.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by NeoZee View Post
                    "Tell me I'm wrong with a why."
                    "Need I point out the irony that the Unreal Engine shows off spectacular graphics, however the Unreal Tournament series is a game of skill in which players that play seriously will turn their distracting high graphics down in order to enhance their play."

                    Again, this is another piece of suspect logic that doesn't seem grounded in past real world experience.

                    Many people that play seriously, play on the latest high-end equipment that is frequently modified for further performance gains. They are good enough that they can use the advantage of really high fps and they want to play this way in an immersive environment at a high resolution with lots of eye candy turned on. When I started asking people what they were using for UT4 I was surprised by the number of GTX 970's....and 980's (a $500 plus video card.)
                    i am still playing ut2004 with gtx 970, everything turned down except skins since its too distracting otherwise.

                    Loved ut99 and when ut2004 came it felt like the right successor, so thats why I've stayed with it. Will try out ut4 but if it feels like going back to ut99 I will prolly wish for an ut2004 mod or stay in ut2004. Too bad they decided to remove double dodge and the other dodge combinations since they are really important part on having a fast paced movement across the map.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      To the OP, your forecast for UT4 is un-optimistic.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I think you may be right and some of the responses in this thread are pretty much why. This community is pretty bad at both giving and receiving criticism/feedback and I think most of them are so desperate for the return of UT, or at least a contributor tag to put on their resume, that what we'll end up with a game that satisfies the fans in terms of an updated UT but will never stand out as a modern game that attracts people under the age of 20 or 30

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I don't think that is correct actually regarding your comment about the irony. I think eye candy is an interference of competitiveness and ultimately a distraction. I'm glad you understood the gist of what I'm saying just somehow got the completely opposite point to what I was saying. I mean why wouldn't it? You think I want everything to be pitch black? UT3 had a futuristic feel. Perhaps that wasn't well grounded a statement. Without writing an essay, I'd say it accumulates around the textures, spectacular map designs and the announcer but it's difficult to describe other than saying that's what everything has amounted to. Which was actually an appraisal. That plus the lighter atmosphere made for better more visible play, again, my respect. But I did have an awkward time wording what Epic Games stood for as I did imagine to be jumped on by nitpickers so I went for the general approach.


                          Now I mentioned the UT Egos earlier and people might make light of it but I think it is an entirely real thing. I even had some on the IRC the other day, when I said the Stinger's alt fire was nothing more than a Linkgun plasma and bio hybrid take offense, ohh the egomaniacs didn't like that one bit. And apparently I should learn how to use it and the gun is used for climbing up walls or whatever junk could be muttered where possible, point scoring and one-upping others based on their loyalty. Plus that it is flawless other than sparing thought towards the minigun/stinger, a concept long talked about problem among users and abusers when UT04's "mininoob" became UT3's "Stingerf*g". Open your eyes. So, I mean we can talk about back in the day and who was doing what first - which you get - ALL THE TIME on Unreal servers. Trying to define it like it's at the center point of attention when in reality compared to what people think matters is is very little due to I'm banking most people contributing here have a an similar history that's brought us to this conclusion.


                          And before you even jump on it, to answer your questions, I did. And if you what to talk about logic, please refer to your last statement and open it to the floor. This whole forecast is about getting to that "good game" which I have predicted will not happen for that of compensation of beauty which you are saying isn't so. Though, I now understand the definition of a forecast and a review have been confused. A forecast is an observation of overall present concepts being drawn and their conclusion. That I think has been accomplished. Moving towards RZE's comment on IRC about it all being speculation and if I have any questions. Not questions exactly, but what I know will prevent what is forthcoming, more expanding mainly from the definition of "playability" which I was waiting to be asked about...

                          Firstly, I am aware Epic Games have on board expert players reviewing the progress, notiably Hypno. But when I try and talk to 04 players about UT4, they're having none of it. The mere mentioning tells them "everything they need to know about me". *Everyone* I've spoken to gives the same reaction, perhaps Epic Game's reach would convince people better than I can to voice well constructed and informed opinions and arguments about the trajectory which is my advice to them for a well rounded game. Having said that;


                          By playability, I mean how fun is it to play? I drew reference to how instantly addictive UT04 was which wasn't apparent in this Pre-alpha. Playability is split down the middle, we want visibility and ability. Couple that concept with what every new edition to anything for that matter needs being of course innovation and mixing it all together comes the creativity of the player playing. For example I think there was slow motion domes or something in UT3 - I'll let the creators think of something new to add.


                          Visibility - I want to see every projectile *very* clearly. The rockets for instance, lack this visibility. I want to clearly see all players and exactly what they are doing, switching guns, I want to see it clearly as it happens. I think the general development of the game should favour long term players over newcomers. Meaning designs in weapons being mostly hidden on HUD and characters are almost wasted efforts. What we need is a nice fat Gorge wearing a lightskin identical to that of UTComp of 2004, with hit sounds included. In fact the same xylophone style would work but I have a feeling if this were to happen, something new would be recorded. Also the way the players looking at them as a target perspective, it doesn't seem too distracting. But in UT3 looking at the movement was ridicules. I think looking at how the actual model moves should mimic '04.


                          Ability - There has been some surprisingly good feedback I've noticed about the multi wall-dodge and particularly the slide function. I've often questioned the multi wall-dodge with perhaps on the first dodge being a 2004 style, and the second, is a 2003 style where gravity forces you downwards rather than sideways just far away enough to escape a projectile against the wall. But removing the double jump, or adding a double jump of UT3's style where the second jump is nothing more than an extra tiptoe is a mistake that costs this "ability" and makes the player seem controlled and ground-bound at the mercy of spam. Makes them feel like they can't do as much and it's all very restricting. It costs creativity. I believe a double jump above a flak or rocket launcher missile should deduct zero damage. A feature not present in 2004. In 2004, multi wall-dodge, it is laughable. Why? I believe because it is too fast and chaotic. People that review Unreal, always talk about how it requires "lightning fast reactions", now here's a thought, to be honest, I'm not so sure about that. There is a fear in saying so looking out for that UT Ego. I think this is only an idea people fondly buy into that encourages pride. People hear that, and I'm betting their thoughts to be well get faster reactions then. Let's keep on ramping it up then! If you think having everyone pinging about the place is going to be fun rather than being in control of your movement then it only makes my forecast more accurate. The way I see it, you can increase splash damage radius and increase the speed and map size, or minimise the two but not drastically. That's the base option in my opinion. But having something too fast, which is what multi wall-dodge encourages is a joke. Again, as the forecast predicts, it will reflect in player count.

                          And to any other heckler that just wants to insult and not forward any real argument worth countering. My response is this: I think the base of the game has already been set in stone. For example map designs already compensating for how the player moves. I think this Pre-Alpha though people are saying it is just in its test stages, what we have seen so far are permanent foundations to be built off for continued development and that is why I stick to my forecast. And I think Zoltar's prophecy is being met with nothing more than feelings of threat by what seems to be the first real opposition of its kind. Where are the other critiques with something constructed to say? If anything this is an opportunity - Zocom7 search "spark" - because someone isn't blinded by the awe of something new and exciting and is able to see through it and foresee and make predictions based on this. If anything I'm more Christopher Columbus than Zoltar the Fortune Teller.

                          Edit: Adding to my last paragraph, I think Fly Dungas is on the button with his word desperate. And it's true about what he says about feed back. I mean even on IRC, you can't see criticism without silly smilie faces trying to soften the harsh words encase offense is caused. I mean I'm not trying to smear people's hard work. And I've tried to fully appreciate it in my forecast and generally when I'm playing. I do take pride myself in noticing the little things. But I'm sorry, I have to give an honest review.
                          Last edited by 4F; 05-22-2015, 01:40 PM.

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                            #14
                            Visibility is one of the biggest items the developers have been focusing on. They went back to the UT99 basics to see why those graphics were so much more conducive to gameplay than later iterations of the game, and it all came down to how uncluttered the levels were visually. Also discussed at great length have been weapon's design and character design so that every gameplay related element stands out clearly. Most of this discussion between fans and devs took place a year ago, so you will want to dig into the forums a bit to find these threads.

                            One thing that really perplexes me is that the devs are constantly reminding us that they need the community to be involved, not just as users, but as co-developers, yet, we see a persistent stream of new users who want to play the game but say they are unable to commit to helping with construction. It is fine to be a user because we need to be able to test new or modified assets and features and get much needed feedback, but we truly need more community developers to be directly involved. As you can see, most of the weapons are placeholders carried over from UT3. Also notable are the many notices that Epic has placed in the forums and in the current pre-alpha is the fact that the current stage of development is still a prototype and is not representative of what they intend the final product to be. There is so much work to be done, still.
                            Last edited by Crotale; 05-23-2015, 10:19 AM. Reason: Oops, left out a critical word.
                            Promotional consideration brought to you by: Tarydium Shards, those neat little projectiles that remove unwanted flesh...from your opponents!

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                              #15
                              Wow another guy like the few others (omarherrera and friends) with negative behaviour more targeted to sink the game much before the game is finished and as dazednconfused said before in this (another negative-attitude post against the game and its still alpha incredible) thread and this time he comes here with a great crystal magic ball oracle nice try dude that didn't work telling us how will UT (4?) become in the far future.

                              " I want to see every projectile *very* clearly. " --> maybe you could try buying another nice, sexy and better glasses you can see butterflies, pink pigs, ponys with shock combos etc maybe could you see better and try to play again (I doubt you will want to do this seriously after reading another depressive thread)?

                              Do you love this game (this ut not the old ones we know you hate them anyway deducting on your way of thinking) or do you hate with all your heart this still unborn-in development-alpha game-not finished game (etc...)?

                              Do you hate this game? Solution: You could play the other ut series or ut99... you hate all them? well, try another game of your taste.

                              Do you love the game? Solution: Be patient, post your work if you want contribute (whatever you know to do modeling, mapping modding etc), or at least leave feedback only based on the development of this game, don't post your preferences or predictions (like you did in this thread to Epic and community this is useless info to waste time) for this game cos Epic and community cannot satisfy everyone. It's better develop the game with the best of all series or improve all those things that worked well in past ut games. Catch bugs you can see, post suggestions on maps, weapons etc...but not preferences.

                              Sorry If I am being "rude" with you but the "Tell me I'm wrong with a why" sounds lolable, and please could you tell what will be the lottery results for today friday? as you said you can see the future, thanks!

                              Have a good day Magician
                              Last edited by darksonny; 05-22-2015, 02:37 PM.

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