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    #16
    So what you're doing is basically: picking some topics the community is currently discussing in dozens of threads (visibility and movement), side for one of them and argue that the game won't succeed if they don't change to whatever you like most.
    Your opinion is cool and I think that designers love having many of them, but I don't think it was necessary to frame this whole thing as a "IMPENDING DOOM" thread. Also you're doing pretty well to antagonize everyone who is simply not on your side, by calling them hecklers, desperate, blindsighted or even going so far as to categorize everyone else as "UT Egos". Just wanted to say that before Im going on.



    Everything else you mention is suspect to discussion already. There are different approaches to balance movement, weapons or visibility.. and without going into further detail, I'd just like to point out that it's highly assumptive of anyone to declare any other approach useless. In the end it shouldn't be about "predicting" the game's future but about adding to the current content. Play the game, make your concerns heard, talk about visibility, movement, weapon balance, but for the love of god:

    stop predicting ut4 will fail only because CURRENTLY it's not the way YOU think it MIGHT succeed.

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      #17
      You are making a lot of conclusions based on your own assumptions.
      "Yeah. _Lynx can fire the lightning gun, have the lightning bolt turn a 90 degree corner, stop and ask the closest teammate for directions, confuse the directions and get lost, realize it went the wrong way, make a U-Turn, and get a headshot on the intended target."
      - RenegadeRetard

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        #18
        timbur put it well. The process by which the game is being made allows development to be ongoing, so if something doesn't work it can be moulded until it does. And this process will be driven forward by the passion that the people involved have for the game. And in time it will gather momentum as more will want to become a part of it.

        Also, have a look at Counter Strike, that game also started in 1999 and has gone through a few iterations but is essentially still the same game, but it's now up there with the top e-sports. It went quiet, and now has come back very strong. I have no doubt UT will do the same.

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          #19
          Okay well I'm not blind. I just feel like no one is taking risks with this title everyone wants things the same and nothing signifcant to change. UT needs major reform you can disagree all you want and say UT99 was the best, UT2004 as the best etc.. But UT today is dead and needs big changes for an example like removing power ups and adding an objective. Power ups are UTs objectives and well games have evolved since then and so should UT. I respect your forecast opinion it just comes off a bit strong to dedicated fans.
          [Concept] Impact Hammer: Alternative Fire
          [Concept] Game Mode: Infiltration

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            #20
            People keep saying the game needs reform and stuff. Give me a list of what the reform is and I can probably bang it out in a day. Attempt to get consensus on this list and ill see you in a couple years or maybe never.

            Anyway with that said, I am absolutely convinced this games strongest point is how moddable it is. YOU DON'T EVEN NEED TO BE A PROGRAMMER TO MAKE A CS:GO CLONE IN IT.

            As far as I care right now the only thing I want from the devs is a nice generic next gen unreal tournament with standard game modes and maybe a couple new things. The reason is, they will not be the ones doing the cool **** for the game and the only thing that will happen if they try too hard is make it harder for those of us actually trying something new.

            UT4 and its toolset make for a highly combustible situation in terms of the opportunity for something new to emerge that takes **** by storm. This community is going to explode due to how easy it is to make and prototype new stuff on this tech. There is zero reason to stand around waiting for EPIC to be the ones to make it happen. This **** is a gold mine. The stuff I am doing right now is just the beginning. We are just now starting to see people making mods.

            UT4 is just the showcase, the real deal is what the community ends up doing.
            - Russell Meakim AKA The Castle
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              #21
              Yes i agree with OP. UT4 is gonna be a fail. AFPS arent very popular these days and with a worse than mediocer game this wont change it. Visually its probably gonna be good since Epic seem to want UT4 as a platform to showcase their engine. Then after people play it for a bit and realize how poor the gameplay is they will quit and move on to better and/or newer games.

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                #22
                We meet yesterday in ut2004, hi

                Well to put it simply, compared to somewhat similar real world examples of successful titles that UT4 has ''traits'' of: Starcraft 2, TF2
                Why I choose them:

                SC2 has a high skill ceiling, that dedicated players practice every day, highly Esports active because of that.
                TF2 has both a booming competitive scene and casual, contributed by the community greatly


                -Rich(er) history
                -Dedicated community, and pretty much made by it
                -High skill ceiling that it can go on forever
                -Going to be constantly updated

                -Eye candy point: yes or no, does not matter, like SC2 has proven, good to have both options to turn it on or off, TF2 is also cartoony yet still successful, so does not matter
                -F2P, new players constantly

                Considering these traits, at the rate its going it has a potential to become as successful as that.
                But I think it will lean towards the SC2 side of success, since its not so noobie friendly. ie players see booming competitive scene (lets hope so), '' hey I wana be that good, try it out or whatever''.
                Oh and no need to insult the dev stream, its relaxed atmosphere is great, wer all humans after all, and I love the transparency epic chose for this project, very admirable.

                But the main forecast would be regarding its "success'' if it will get enough exposure by enough money pumped into tournaments, and maybe dedicated youtube personalities similar to Total biscuit or something supporting it.

                But honestly one thing I think is for sure, the small dedicated community will keep it alive, not everyone enjoys these types of games as we do, so considering it made by us for us, this is the success we want, and if others join in, great, we will still be playing regardless

                Anyway thank you for opening this thread, despite it being a bit to pessimistic, still valid points, it can be fun to discuss, I had fun, lets just try and see our biased point of view and how it grinds the gears of others, TOWARDS A BETTER FUTURE, YEEEEEEEEEE !!!

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Crotale View Post
                  Visibility is one of the biggest items the developers have been focusing on. They went back to the UT99 basics to see why those graphics were so much more conducive to gameplay than later iterations of the game, and it all came down to how uncluttered the levels were visually. Also discussed at great length have been weapon's design and character design so that every gameplay related element stands out clearly. Most of this discussion between fans and devs took place a year ago, so you will want to dig into the forums a bit to find these threads.
                  I do think the OP has a point about a certain subsection of the community who cares about this more than a majority of UT players, that they'll have weapons hidden, use hitsounds, brightskins etc. What I dont get is why these players, who obviously have alot more skill than a majority of developers dont just use UE4 to make their own game. I know that may go against Epics core tenants for UT4 being an e-sport but honestly its about a lot more than visuals and its funny how people can be hypocritical on the topic.

                  Originally posted by Crotale View Post
                  One thing that really perplexes me is that the devs are constantly reminding us that they need the community to be involved, not just as users, but as co-developers, yet, we see a persistent stream of new users who want to play the game but say they are unable to commit to helping with construction. It is fine to be a user because we need to be able to test new or modified assets and features and get much needed feedback, but we truly need more community developers to be directly involved. As you can see, most of the weapons are placeholders carried over from UT3. Also notable are the many notices that Epic has placed in the forums and in the current pre-alpha is the fact that the current stage of development is still a prototype and is representative of what they intend the final product to be. There is so much work to be done, still.
                  If people arnt willing to put in the time to help develop than they are only hurting themselves and what they want, there are people in the community who take advice and listen to other community members but I dont think gaming credentials automagically give you king status to boss around volunteers, you have to earn it. I dont blame people for being hesistant about getting involved, Ive committed alot of hours to the forums, to UE4 and UT4 over the past few years but its really hard to get Epic to notice anything I do to the point they'll mention it (granted I dont watch every stream). There are people who deserve all the hype they get but I just feel as though some of us are shovelled up back like our contribution isnt worthy or doesnt matter as much which is a **** poor attitude towards working as a team, for instance (I'll use an example Sir_Brizz did in a CTF thread) if a player just hovers around the flag on defense but their team is really great on offense and they dont see much play it doesnt make them any less important.


                  Part of the problem I have with this UT is there is so much rushing, that porting is the default when we should really want to start fresh in some cases and fix the mistakes made. Im sick of people assuming that UT<insert favourite> is the epitome of game design, that Epic/DE did nothing wrong and the games are pure perfection, thats a joke and just shows how little some people know about game design. Im not going to say it'll be easy to do better but its certainly easy to do worse especially if we copy/paste mistakes!
                  Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

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                    #24
                    From my understanding, essentially what the OP and his posts are saying, is that compared to the "feel" of the original games(99/2k4), this one, so far, is lacking badly in the same addictive way, and so because of this, chances are the game won't be successful.

                    He's also trying to say the failure of UT3 was because graphics took a precedent over gameplay, and to repeat the same mistakes again will have the same outcome.

                    I don't think anything he's said is such an outlandish opinion that it deserves to be attacked, in fact I agree with the majority of it. In it's current state purely gameplay wise would the game be a failure, I'd say definitely. But it's pre alpha and given the current state of how the game plays I'd guess the core mechanics haven't been touched much at all, which while not ideal, it gives hope that there is alot of changes coming to improve.

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                      #25
                      Mind my language btw, because I am just ****** that all the good old games turn bad when someone tries to make a reboot...
                      My opinion changes day to day about UT4. Sometimes I think it is gonna be an amazing game, and sometimes I think that it will be a disaster. I am sorry, but mainly because the developers don't know jack **** about what they are doing, and they let every single person develop what they want for the game. One of the biggest problems is that they call everything "awesome" even though it clearly isn't. Have you seen the latest stream about the CTF maps? There was a launch pad on the map that lets you fly yourself across the whole map while carrying the enemy flag and land next to your own flag! It was a fundamentally wrong map, but they called it a "good map" and talked about the bridge and the gate for like 10 mins instead. No, the content is not amazing, and its not funny at all. Please give honest feedback to the community, and if the content is **** just say that its ****, don't pretend like its good. With this attitude we will end up with the weirdest game ever, I already hate this idea about the market. People will create the dumbest hats and characters... Why not just release UT4 as a paid game, so people don't have to download this custom ****, that they don't like? I don't want to be seeing vikings running around a sci-fi map. Oh and also, how come do they listen to UT99 players that double jump is OP, but allow a multi wall dodge? Imo multi wall dodge is even more OP compared to double jump. And what depth to the game does knee sliding add? All the whiners that complain about the double jumping say that double jump doesn't add any depth into the game. But how does a knee slide add any depth into the game? Why is it even in the game then? I just wish that Digital Extremes made a similar game to UT, but a proper one.
                      Last edited by Raidakk; 05-23-2015, 10:02 AM.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Castle View Post
                        ...
                        Anyway with that said, I am absolutely convinced this games strongest point is how moddable it is. YOU DON'T EVEN NEED TO BE A PROGRAMMER TO MAKE A CS:GO CLONE IN IT.

                        As far as I care right now the only thing I want from the devs is a nice generic next gen unreal tournament with standard game modes and maybe a couple new things. ...

                        UT4 and its toolset make for a highly combustible situation in terms of the opportunity for something new to emerge that takes **** by storm. This community is going to explode due to how easy it is to make and prototype new stuff on this tech. There is zero reason to stand around waiting for EPIC to be the ones to make it happen. This **** is a gold mine. The stuff I am doing right now is just the beginning. We are just now starting to see people making mods.
                        QFT I marked in bold and bigger size to all those people who knowing this UE4 is (and still is in development as engine to sell or to show it) being improved over the time or months is more versatile, more "easy" but easy at all, more powerful, more tools to work with the lights and materials ...since Epic told their UE 4 would be free for all THEY are telling to us "shake your hands" and (if you do want logically) put your hands on their editor that is awaiting for you to make all your favourite map, mods, muts, models (even putting in marketplace to sell for a few bucks)


                        There is not any excuse to trolling or whining to say nonsenses like "what the **** are they doing with my UT?" or so, put your hands on to do something as member of this game (never mind if you are an casual, amateur, pro player or not, never mind you can do these things, there is tutorials in growing process, this forum to ask for doubts etc..), you don't have anymore the right to critizice passively not doing anything while you are seated in your comfortable and "sleepy" chair next to your computer (except feedback to develop or improve x things that's right) when you know the game is free the UE is free what are you waiting for? Guys this time if ut fails in future that time will be blame or fail for all community not epic. Take your freedom to do something directly or participate in it providing feedback to ut community developers (mappers or whatever).
                        Last edited by darksonny; 05-23-2015, 01:17 PM.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by 4F View Post
                          Tell me I'm wrong with a why.
                          It's not about your being wrong strictly speaking. Of course what you said can in part or whole happen, but what revelation is that? All ventures require some level of risk and I and others believe this venture will work out well for everyone. So, while you might not be completely wrong, you seem to need a happy pill.

                          My Unreal game collection. Unreal series screenshots (2560x1440)

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                            #28
                            There is a lot of stupid stuff going on to be honest. EG i asked for help making a door open when shot "secret door" I started multiple threads after no one replied, i asked for help in multiple topics, i asked for help on irc, i asked for help on social media,

                            Did anyone reply? I know everyone would of read it. Ive played and tested and provided feedback, im blunt and to the point im not polite i say what i think and am always getting attacked.

                            I have made every single popular map from past UT's and happily shared them until i never got anything but take take take no give, 1 time i asked for help not 1 person helped and im most disappointed with Epic because i know they read my posts. I know they listen to what i have to say because what ever ive posted gets addressed and fixed sooner or later. Not 1 dev could of posted a simple fix. So now after almost a year of helping them by playtesting and reporting S> H >I>>T loads of bugs and the 1 time i asked for help i hear cricket sound.

                            Well now im going to do a bit of ignoring myself
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                              #29
                              Originally posted by code187 View Post
                              Did anyone reply? I know everyone would of read it. Ive played and tested and provided feedback, im blunt and to the point im not polite i say what i think and am always getting attacked.
                              I honestly didnt see your post or chat on IRC, Im always willing to help where I can
                              Upon release, Unreal Tournament 2004 was met with widespread critical acclaim. Several critics praised the unique, fast-paced, fun and challenging nature of the game as its main selling points, while fans touted the post-release support and extensive modding capabilities.

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by code187 View Post
                                There is a lot of stupid stuff going on to be honest. EG i asked for help making a door open when shot "secret door" I started multiple threads after no one replied, i asked for help in multiple topics, i asked for help on irc, i asked for help on social media,

                                Did anyone reply? I know everyone would of read it. Ive played and tested and provided feedback, im blunt and to the point im not polite i say what i think and am always getting attacked.

                                I have made every single popular map from past UT's and happily shared them until i never got anything but take take take no give, 1 time i asked for help not 1 person helped and im most disappointed with Epic because i know they read my posts. I know they listen to what i have to say because what ever ive posted gets addressed and fixed sooner or later. Not 1 dev could of posted a simple fix. So now after almost a year of helping them by playtesting and reporting S> H >I>>T loads of bugs and the 1 time i asked for help i hear cricket sound.

                                Well now im going to do a bit of ignoring myself
                                There are two (actually 3) door examples in the demo map of the latest build.
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