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    Aim Based vs Prediction/Strategic Gameplay

    Hi everyone,

    wanted to get a discussion open about aim based gameplay mostly, and why it has it's pros and cons in competitive(or even casual) gameplay. I could not get into 2k3/2k4 because my aim was mediocre in that game. I could have the best map knowledge, timing and prediction, but I would just lose battles against players because they would have the hitscan weapons(LG/ASMD) and abuse them, even up close. With ping compensation being implemented by default, I am afraid this will be the same route the new UT will take in the future with aim based players winning battles/matches with excellent hitscan over someone with the best prediction/strategy in the game. Duel and TDM experiences were ruined for me in the 2kx series of games, because my strategy would be useless most of the time. I understand that it was a different type of game compared to UT1 and UT3, but I do want a balance between aim and strategy gameplay in UT4.

    I was a UT3 player mostly, but I also enjoyed UT99's nature of gaming as well. The two games had similar gameplay styles, which were of course, strategy/prediction based gameplay. The reason? Ping compensation was never really used by "default" in weapons gameplay(instagib is a whole different story). Despite having to lead ahead slightly with hitscan weapons(link secondary, sniper, ASMD), I felt the gameplay was more enjoyable being able to purely outpredict someone, especially someone with lower ping(I would have 60-80 ping in some matches against 20-30 ping players). Prediction gameplay takes so much more skill than just aiming. Sure, my aim has always been good, but nothing compared to the best 2kx players(not saying 2kx players did not have strategy).

    UT4 is going to have to strike a balance between these two types of gameplay in order to be successful in the future. Strategy players should be able to overcome hitscan heavy players, especially in duel. I understand you should be able to get away with flawless aim, obviously, but being able to use strategy to overcome this must be a possibility. So far, I feel like UT4 is more of a strategy based game, basically due to the fact that the netcode isn't really finished yet, and along with the input lag. In the future when the netcode is better, the shock primaries and sniper shots will be a lot easier to hit, most likely. Again, finding a balance is necessary.
    Last edited by exsh0ck; 07-05-2015, 07:15 PM.
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    #2
    100% agree

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      #3
      Originally posted by MasterPlayerLoRD. View Post
      100% agree
      Ditto ....

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        #4
        I think you shouldn't be too worried about this as Epic did say they are trying to make projectiles more relevant in competitive play. Sniper and Shock Primary are already very easy to hit with and I never have them miss because of netcode issues (literally cannot recall a single time a sniper shot hit on my screen and didn't register. It's a different story with projectiles...). I guess with better mouse input they might become even easier to hit with, but I don't think they will ever be as dominant as 2k4 just because there's no dodgejump.

        I'm more worried about projectiles in relation to netcode. Right now it's really hard to dodge projectiles and netcode is part of the reason. I hope that tweaks to splash radius and speed will mostly solve these issues, but who knows.

        I do agree though that strategy should be able to overcome someone with better aim, which is why things like timers should be removed. Right now just being aggressive and having good aim is usually enough to win against people with better strategy.

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          #5
          Great Thread brah
          Epic definitely needs more people that fuel their senseless hitscan fear.

          /sarcasm

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Barktooth View Post
            but I don't think they will ever be as dominant as 2k4 just because there's no dodgejump.
            It's funny, I keep seeing this over and over and over again. It seems like if you just don't dodge jump you will be invulnerable in 2k4...

            Wall running and sliding are of course completely different and not abusable by hit scan at all, nope, not at all.

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              #7
              The best way to make the game less aim based would be to just nerf every weapon :L

              The kill potential is currently so high on everything that it's easy to brute force your way through a stack someone had to work for.
              :|

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                #8
                If the hitscan weapons become a really big issue as netcode is improved, I feel like changing the weapons themselves is the best way to go. Balancing by netcode (or lack thereof) probably isn't the best way to go because you'll get a situation where when it comes to LAN, the weapons will still be an issue.
                As it stands I feel like hitscan isn't a major problem (though I acknowledge it could be as time goes on), and effectiveness over projectiles certainly depends on the map you're playing on.

                On the point about sliding, I feel like the most effective use of sliding I see in the current build is to be evasive against somebody trying to snipe you through a small gap at long range, and is generally more easily punished by projectile weapons at close-mid range.
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Tetsu View Post
                  Great Thread brah
                  Epic definitely needs more people that fuel their senseless hitscan fear.

                  /sarcasm
                  This.

                  Also, shock primary dmg should be increased (to 45, if I remember correctly it's still at 40) as well as rocket launcher self-damage values.
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                    #10
                    with the current flak and roket damage ut4 will never become hitscan based

                    Actually only old nostagic players are using it

                    There is no reason for newcomers using hitscan, its so hard to learn compared to flak and roket who do more damage

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                      #11
                      I think hitsounds would amplify the use of hitscan because for myself i just like the feeling of hitting with sniper and hearing a sound, that even makes me hitting more.
                      No hitsounds will cause a less hitscan based gamestyle, atleast in my opinion.

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                        #12
                        Its kinda the opposite for me raLa. With hitsounds you havé better information on your hits with flak roket or combo. A sniper shok is always 70 a shok béam 40.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          But I do agree that hitsounds and brightskins could drastically improve the hit rates with every weapon.
                          With the high damage weapons of ut4 that Will be to much

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by boNz View Post
                            But I do agree that hitsounds and brightskins could drastically improve the hit rates with every weapon.
                            With the high damage weapons of ut4 that Will be to much
                            Yeah that's what i was aiming at, of course u can better judge wether your rocket did dmg or not, but i think the real increment of your accuracy will be manifested by your hitscan weapons. Because the feeling is just better.

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                              #15
                              I agree with nvz.
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